gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (07/31/90)
So far I haven't seen the good nEws reported in this newsgroup... not
only is OW 2.0 shipping today, but it's also included as a standard
part of the OS on the new SPARCstation IPC. Way to go Sun! Thanks for
listening...and responding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
FAST NEW 3-D OPEN LOOK NOW AVAILABLE FROM SUN
SunFLASH Vol 19 #20 July 1990
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
OpenWindows Included Free With New SPARCstation
NEW YORK --July 25, 1990-- Sun Microsystems today introduced a new
release of the OpenWindows(TM) application environment, which now
features the OPEN LOOK(TM) graphical user interface in 3-D. The new
version also contains 3-D DeskSet(TM) productivity tools and a new
release of the X11/NeWS(TM) Window System that is five times faster.
This speeds up such tasks as window creation, moving, resizing, opening
and closing, as measured by the MIT X11 performance benchmark.
OpenWindows Version 2 will be included in all diskfull versions of
Sun's desktop SPARCstations(TM) at no cost, beginning with the new
SPARCstation IPC introduced today. In addition, there is no licensing
fee for developers who order OpenWindows. To date, 10,000 copies have
been shipped.
The intuitive, easy-to-use OPEN LOOK interface is demonstrating
increasing momentum among software developers. Today, Sun released a
guide listing more than 100 OPEN LOOK applications.
Fast New X11/NeWS
"We've put extensive resources into optimizing performance," explained
Carl Wolf, vice president of desktop software at Sun. "Our new release
of X11/NeWS feels as fast as a simple, kernel-based window system like
SunView(TM), but it's a fully portable, network-based window system.
It gives users the best of both worlds." Sun's X11/NeWS, is fully
compliant with the most recent version of the X Window System, called
R4, but also offers integrated PostScript(R) capability.
New Features in OpenWindows
An improved XView(TM) toolkit, a standard part of OpenWindows, is used
to develop OPEN LOOK applications in 3-D. XView provides easy
migration of the 2,800 SunView applications now on the market. An
addition to OpenWindows Version 2 is a new toolkit called the OPEN LOOK
Intrinsics Toolkit (OLIT(TM)). It is based on AT&T's Xt+(TM) toolkit,
featuring industry-standard Xt intrinsics from the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology. Certain customers, such as government users,
frequently require Xt intrinsics.
OPEN LOOK toolkits are being ported to 35 computer systems. For
example, XView will be available for several hardware platforms in
addition to Sun's SPARC(R) systems. These include UNIX(R) workstations
from Digital Equipment Corp., Hewlett-Packard and IBM. In addition,
third-party software developer TGV of Santa Cruz, Calif., is porting
XView to DEC's VAX/VMS environment. Integrated Computer Solutions of
Cambridge, Mass., another software developer, will offer XView for
A/UX, the version of UNIX for the Macintosh.
OpenWindows Version 2 supports DECnet. This enables Sun workstations
to display DECwindows applications running on VAX systems from Digital
Equipment Corp. by adding SunLink DNI networking software, which is
Sun's implementation of DECnet protocols.
Elements of OpenWindows
OpenWindows is one of the richest, most comprehensive application
environments for networked computers on the market today. It
includes:
OPEN LOOK, an easy-to-use 3-D interface that is a standard part of
AT&T's UNIX SVR4;
X11/NeWS, a high-performance window system that merges
industry-standard X with NeWS , featuring the PostScript imaging
model;
OpenFonts(TM) technology for displaying scalable outline fonts,
giving developers and users access to 627 fonts;
14 DeskSet tools, including a file manager, mail tool, text editor,
binder, icon editor, snapshot tool, performance meters, clock, calendar
manager, print tool, tape tool and calculator;
Three toolkits, XView, OLIT and TNT(TM), are available to develop
OPEN LOOK applications. The TNT toolkit is used to develop
PostScript-based applications for NeWS. All toolkits give the user a
consistent look and feel.
Significant ease of use for the developer is provided through the
OpenWindows Developer's Guide(TM), a prototyping tool for quickly
designing OPEN LOOK user interfaces. This product is part of the
OpenWindows environment, but priced separately.
Pricing and Availability
OpenWindows Version 2 is available today. It is loaded in the new
SPARCstation IPC. Sun customers with the previous release of
OpenWindows will receive a free upgrade automatically.
Sun Microsystems, Inc., headquartered in Mountain View, Calif., is a
leading worldwide supplier of network-based distributed computing
systems, including professional workstations, servers and UNIX
operating system and productivity software.
###
OpenWindows, X11/NeWS, DeskSet, SPARCstation, OpenFonts, XView, OLIT,
SunView, TNT and OpenWindows Developer's Guide are trademarks of Sun
Microsystems, Inc. NeWS and SunLink are registered trademarks of Sun
Microsystems, Inc. OPEN LOOK and Xt+ are trademarks of AT&T. UNIX is
a registered trademark of AT&T. PostScript is a registered trademark
of Adobe Systems Inc. All other products or services mentioned in this
document are identified by the trademarks or service marks of their
respective companies or organizations.
Press Contact:
Cathleen Beale Garfield (415) 336-6536
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sunflash is an electronic mail news service from Sun Microsystems,
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA. It is targeted at Sun Users and Customers.
As a field sales and support office, we try to keep SunFlash useful and
interesting to you. If you have any comments or suggestions for
enhancing SunFlash, please send them to us.
SunFlash is ditributed via a hierarchy of aliases. Please try to
address change requests to the owner of the alias that you belong to.
Please address comments to the SunFlash editor John McLaughlin
(sun!sunvice!flash or flash@sunvice.East.Sun.COM). (305) 776-7770.
--
John Gilmore {sun,pacbell,uunet,pyramid}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@toad.com
The Gutenberg Bible is printed on hemp (marijuana) paper. So was the July 2,
1776 draft of the Declaration of Independence. Why can't we grow it now?ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) (08/02/90)
Hi guys & gals, There have been a few things that have been confusing me over this stuff with OW/NeWS/X11. We here have a Sun 4/470 as a standalone machine. On our LAN, we have a fair number of machines running X, rangeing from an NCD X-terminal to the Sun 3/50 that I use (I run xdm on the 470 and simply have the 3/50 as a display, little more than a terminal really). What I want to know basically is "What would OW2.0 do for us ?" Would I be able to run OW/NeWS/X11 stuff on the 470 and have it displayed on an X-terminal or any other X-machine ? This would be wonderfull but I am unsure from what I have read as to whether it is possible. One of the things that would be really usefull in this case would be the ability to run SunView applications on remote X-terminals. On another note, the press release mentions a new version of XView that makes it easy to convert current SunView stuff to X11. How much easier ? I fiddled with XView a month or so ago, and tried to convert mush to use XView. It appeared to me that you would have to have about 5 years of experience in BOTH X11 and SunView to have a hope of converting anything (but maybe I was approaching the problem in the wrong way). Has anyone managed this feat BTW, as I am currently using xmh and long to be able to use "Xmush". Tooltool is another I would love to see converted as I have this wonderfull nntool that I created in my old SunView days. thanx in advance for any info/experience you could forward, ant -- V ant "It's great to be young and insane" \o/ ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au - Dream Team -O- Anthony Murdoch Prentice Computer Centre /0\ Phone (07) 3774078 University of Qld
chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com (Chuck Musciano) (08/02/90)
In article <1990Aug2.025858.14871@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au>, ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) writes: > What I want to know basically is "What would OW2.0 do for us ?" Would I be > able to run OW/NeWS/X11 stuff on the 470 and have it displayed on an X-terminal > or any other X-machine ? This would be wonderfull but I am unsure from what I > have read as to whether it is possible. One of the things that would be really > usefull in this case would be the ability to run SunView applications on > remote X-terminals. OW 2.0 allows you to do anything you can do with a "regular" X package. Thus, you can run applications on one machine and display their windows on a machine running OW 2.0. However, this only applies to X and NeWS applications. Since SunView is not a networked window system, you can only display SunView apps on the machine on which they are running. Basically, OW 2.0 gives you all of X, all of NeWS, and all of SunView on one machine. This is great for us, since we are slowly migrating from SunView to X, and we don't have to cut straight to X. We can wean ourselves from SunView tools as X versions become available. > On another note, the press release mentions a new version of XView that makes > it easy to convert current SunView stuff to X11. How much easier ? I fiddled > with XView a month or so ago, and tried to convert mush to use XView. It > appeared to me that you would have to have about 5 years of experience in BOTH > X11 and SunView to have a hope of converting anything (but maybe I was > approaching the problem in the wrong way). Has anyone managed this feat BTW, > as I am currently using xmh and long to be able to use "Xmush". I don't put much faith in the XView conversion scripts, but I have heard that some people have had success with them. For simple SunView tools, they probably work rather well. I just ported contool, my Sun console watcher, to X. I retained the basic appliactions code, but rebuilt the interface using GUIDE, Sun's OPEN LOOK interface builder. Anyone doing any development for XView needs to look at GUIDE. I was able to build a base window and six dialog boxes in a just a few hours. Hit a button, and out comes 3,000 lines of source code. Add your application routines, and away you go. And at $295 per unlimited site license, how can you go wrong? I will be releasing contool in the near future, as soon as the XView toolkit makes it to MIT. Here is one small dilemma: where do I post it? Comp.sources.sun, obviously, but what about comp.sources.x? I've seen postings apparently rejected from c.s.x for lack of an imakefile. I don't have an imakefile for contool, and don't know if it needs one or not. Any advice? > Tooltool is > another I would love to see converted as I have this wonderfull nntool that > I created in my old SunView days. Soon, when I get the time, I'll port tooltool to X. Again, here is my dilemma: do I retain SunView look and feel for backwards compatibility, or do I switch to an OPEN LOOK look and feel, making new tools "correct" but breaking old ones? At least under OW 2.0, you can run old tooltool applications until I get the port finished. Chuck Musciano ARPA : chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com Harris Corporation Usenet: ...!uunet!x102a!trantor!chuck PO Box 37, MS 3A/1912 AT&T : (407) 727-6131 Melbourne, FL 32902 FAX : (407) 727-{5118,5227,4004} I'm glad you asked, son. Being popular is the most important thing in the world. -- Homer Simpson
laukee@canon.co.uk (David Lau-Kee) (08/08/90)
gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: ... >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > FAST NEW 3-D OPEN LOOK NOW AVAILABLE FROM SUN > >SunFLASH Vol 19 #20 July 1990 >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- etc. How does OW2 FCS differ from OW2(beta)? If it is essentially the same then how are these "five times faster" figures calculated? We found 2beta subjectively *slower* than 1.0. Are we talking "faster" as in "faster on 4Mb machines"? And what's this stuff about 3-D Open Look?? (Beta gives you "real" pseudo 3-d Xview, but TNT stays pseudo-pseudo). How about consistent look & feel between X and NeWS applications? Again the toolkit l&f mismatches (mis-trackings) between X and NeWS means that this is not the case. Maybe marketing hype is the price one pays for seeing the product ship... Ok, fair exchange. ------------- David Lau-Kee Canon Research Centre Europe, 17/20 Frederick Sanger Rd, Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU25YD, UK. NRS: laukee@uk.co.canon, INET: laukee%canon@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: laukee@canon.uucp, PATH: ..!mcsun!ukc!uos-ee!canon!laukee Tel: +44 (0) 483 574325 Fax: +44 (0) 483 574360
alan@cogswell.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer) (08/14/90)
In article <4057@trantor.harris-atd.com>, chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com (Chuck Musciano) writes: > Basically, OW 2.0 gives > you all of X, all of NeWS, and all of SunView on one machine. Unless OW 2.0 is substantially improved in capabilities as well as speed from OW 1.0, some SunView code will not run. In fact, I personally haven't seen any of our SunView code around here that run well under xnews. This isn't a flame; just don't get your hopes up. > I just ported contool, my Sun console watcher, to X. I retained the > basic appliactions code, but rebuilt the interface using GUIDE, Sun's OPEN LOOK > interface builder. Anyone doing any development for XView needs to look at > GUIDE. I was able to build a base window and six dialog boxes in a just a few > hours. Hit a button, and out comes 3,000 lines of source code. Add your > application routines, and away you go. And at $295 per unlimited site license, > how can you go wrong? You can lose $295 :-). We've had two different people here try to use GUIDE and in both cases it was just more trouble than it was worth. GUIDE does generate lots of source code and if you want to generate source code quickly, you can use it. People here found that they could do the same things with much less code simpler and more cleanly outside of GUIDE. -- Alan # My aptitude test in high school suggested that ..!ames!elroy!alan # I should become a forest ranger. Sometimes I alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov # wonder if that was not indeed my true calling.
bochner@lange.harvard.EDU (Harry Bochner) (08/14/90)
In article <1990Aug2.025858.14871@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au>, ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) writes: > On another note, the press release mentions a new version of XView that makes > it easy to convert current SunView stuff to X11. How much easier ? I fiddled > with XView a month or so ago, and tried to convert mush to use XView. It > appeared to me that you would have to have about 5 years of experience in BOTH > X11 and SunView to have a hope of converting anything. I haven't tried it, but I'm rather suspicious about the robustness of XView, on the following basis. Sun has put a lot of work into their Desk Suite programs, SunWrite, SunDraw, etc. So far these programs are available _only_ in SunView versions. The fact that they haven't released X versions seems to mean that: a) they feel there is some marketing advantage to having only SunView versions (since it means that users have to be on Suns, as opposed to X-terminals, for instance). This would contradict the stated strategy of supporting X. or b) converting from SunView to X is trickier than they'd like us to think, even using XView. or c) XView itself just doesn't work very well yet. This is just speculation: anyone have any information? Harry Bochner bochner@endor.harvard.edu
mlandau@bbn.com (Matthew Landau) (08/14/90)
alan@cogswell.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer) writes: >Unless OW 2.0 is substantially improved in capabilities as well as speed from >OW 1.0, some SunView code will not run. Ah, but it IS substantially improved, in almost every respect. I've been running OWN 2.0 on my Sparcstation for a week, and found it quite impressive. It's very fast, it's at least as robust as any other vendor's X11 implementation (and much moreso than either DECWindows or AIXWindows, in my experience), and it's obvious that a lot of work has gone into the desktop tools. In fact, it's the first X-based environment that's good enough to convince me to ditch SunView once and for all. I've also run *many* different SunView programs, including some large (3 MB) applications that tweak colormap segments, interact with the window mangement functions on their own, use fullscreen access, and do other things you might expect to be broken under OWN. Except for the well-documented "SunView windows always sit on top of the OWN display" problem, every single one of them has run flawlessly. -- Matt Landau Rebel without a clue. mlandau@bbn.com
mlandau@bbn.com (Matthew Landau) (08/14/90)
bochner@lange.harvard.EDU (Harry Bochner) writes: >I haven't tried it, but I'm rather suspicious about the robustness of XView, >on the following basis. Sun has put a lot of work into their Desk Suite >programs, SunWrite, SunDraw, etc. So far these programs are available >_only_ in SunView versions. I believe that all of these programs are available for machines running OpenWindows version 2. OWN 2.0 also includes the complete set of "DeskSet" tools (filemgr, printtool, tapetool, calendar, etc.), all of which are written with XView, and all of which leave the vanilla X11 tools to which most of us are accustomed in the dust. (Of course, they have their share of glaring stupidities, like the fact that the tape tool won't deal with remote tape drives and there's no way to quit textedit from the keyboard, but that's not XView's fault.) The new 3-D look on XView is pretty cool, too :-) The longer I use both Open Look and Motif, the more convinced I become that Open Look is the way to go for the future. I can't explain why, but it just "feels" much more natural in almost every respect... perhaps all that human factors work that reportedly went into the design really paid off. -- Matt Landau Oblivion gallops closer, mlandau@bbn.com favoring the spur, sparing the rein.
jback@trine.East.Sun.COM (Joe Backo - PS Mgr Sun Washington) (08/14/90)
In article <3861@husc6.harvard.edu>, bochner@lange.harvard.EDU (Harry Bochner) writes: |> In article <1990Aug2.025858.14871@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au>, |> ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) writes: |> > On another note, the press release mentions a new version of XView |> that makes |> > it easy to convert current SunView stuff to X11. How much easier ? |> I fiddled |> > with XView a month or so ago, and tried to convert mush to use XView. It |> > appeared to me that you would have to have about 5 years of |> experience in BOTH |> > X11 and SunView to have a hope of converting anything. |> |> I haven't tried it, but I'm rather suspicious about the robustness of XView, |> on the following basis. Sun has put a lot of work into their Desk Suite |> programs, |> SunWrite, SunDraw, etc. So far these programs are available _only_ in SunView |> versions. The fact that they haven't released X versions seems to mean that: ... stuff deleted... |> This is just speculation: anyone have any information? -- Harry; The "Desk Suite" programs you refer to have been transfered back to Island Graphics, their original creators. I spoke to Island Graphics last week, and they informed me that an OpenWindows (XView) version of SunWrite, SunPaint, and SunDraw is in the works - possible release in 1990. The OpenWindows 2.0 release has the same 14 DeskSet tools that are available in SunView (e.g. tapetool, printool, calendar manager, etc.). As for the "robustness of XView", the source code for XView 2.0 will being appearing on expo soon, why don't you try it? +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= =+=+=+=+ Joe Backo ARPA : jback@sun.com Sun Microsystems Internet: jback@sundc.East.Sun.COM 8219 Leesburg Pike Usenet : ...!uunet!sun!sundc!jback Suite #700 AT&T : (703) 883-0444 Vienna, VA 22180 FAX : (703) 893-0576 +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= =+=+=+=+
msc@ramoth.esd.sgi.com (Mark Callow) (08/21/90)
In article <11722@hoptoad.uucp>, gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: |> So far I haven't seen the good nEws reported in this newsgroup... not |> only is OW 2.0 shipping today, but it's also included as a standard |> part of the OS on the new SPARCstation IPC. Way to go Sun! Thanks for |> listening...and responding. That they are giving it away is good news but read on ... |> |> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |> FAST NEW 3-D OPEN LOOK NOW AVAILABLE FROM SUN |> |> SunFLASH Vol 19 #20 July 1990 |> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |> |> OpenWindows Included Free With New SPARCstation |> |> NEW YORK --July 25, 1990-- Sun Microsystems today introduced a new |> |> Three toolkits, XView, OLIT and TNT(TM), are available to develop |> OPEN LOOK applications. The TNT toolkit is used to develop |> PostScript-based applications for NeWS. All toolkits give the user a |> consistent look and feel. |> The last sentence is an outright lie. The TNT toolkit does not have the new pseudo 3d appearance. This is just part of what makes NeWS an obviously second class citizen in OW 2.0. The poor set of demos is another thing that contributes. Only roundclock and the calculator look nice. Even PageView, which should be the premier NeWS application, seems lacking. It has lost the random page access feature of psview. Mind you the X demos aren't much better. A final pointer to NeWS 2nd class citizenship is that the default window manager "olwm" is an X window manager. I'm very disappointed at the lack of progress NeWS. From the demos it looks like not much has changed since NeWS 1.0 (yes I do mean NeWS 1.0, I don't mean X11/NeWS 1.0). -- From the TARDIS of Mark Callow msc@ramoth.sgi.com, ...{ames,decwrl}!sgi!msc "There is much virtue in a window. It is to a human being as a frame is to a painting, as a proscenium to a play. It strongly defines its content."
laukee@canon.co.uk (David Lau-Kee) (08/22/90)
msc@ramoth.esd.sgi.com (Mark Callow) writes: [ ... ] >|> Three toolkits, XView, OLIT and TNT(TM), are available to develop >|> OPEN LOOK applications. The TNT toolkit is used to develop >|> PostScript-based applications for NeWS. All toolkits give the user a >|> consistent look and feel. >|> >The last sentence is an outright lie. The TNT toolkit does not have >the new pseudo 3d appearance. This is just part of what makes NeWS >an obviously second class citizen in OW 2.0. The poor set of demos is [ ... ] >I'm very disappointed at the lack of progress NeWS. From the demos >it looks like not much has changed since NeWS 1.0 (yes I do mean NeWS >1.0, I don't mean X11/NeWS 1.0). I don't want to get into a "define look & feel" argument, and I basically agree with much of what you're saying. Only the xview libraries give you the level 2 OPEN LOOK compliance (though I can't say for sure whether it has actually passed the compliance tests/checks). Both OLIT and TNT are level 1 toolkits. The OL spec is interesting in that level 2 is said to be a superset of level 1... I was wondering, a while ago, whether or not it was possible to have a "superset interface" which can be said to have the same look and feel. Since we all seem to be a bit hot around the collar over OW2, the answer seems to be "no". (And doesn't OL say that the colours of window borders are meant to be the same??) If you speak to many Sun guys they'll spin a consumer-pressure line on you... getting Sunview developers to switch as quick as possible, in the least painful manner; also Sun are unconstrained in the design and development of xview, whereas OLIT is a little bit NIH. As regards TNT, you'll notice that it is still called an experimental, developers toolkit... and yes, that means it is still practically unuseable for non-experimental developers. NeWS has changed from 1.0, you now get tNt (which doesn't work), as well as a new lite (which doesn't work), and, err... well, the startup screen is much nicer. I think we all freak at Sun implying that OW2 is somehow "finished". It isn't. Then again, unless OW is pushed *now* as a useable system - moreso, as the window system of choice - they'll start cutting their losses, and guess which part will be the first to go! NeWS is still the Bastard Stepchild. But I'm beginning to adopt the "fuck-em" attitude... wait a couple of years, and as long as NeWS is still a part of OW then you'll see users foaming at the mouth over some great "X" applications. They won't know they're NeWS, and they won't care. It'll be a big in-joke. NeWS developers will have secret handshakes. Users and managers could have made an effort to go for NeWS instead of sheep-ing along the nice secure, safe, "does it run Fortran", "my programmers like infix", head-in-the-sand-but-who-gives-a-damn-since-we're-all-in-this-together road of standards, compliance and mundaneness are the sad, everyday, ordinary people of this world. They don't dream, they have no vision, let them have xview, a marriage made in heaven. Leave NeWS for the rebels... those wild-eyed boys and girls who know how to have a good time. I'm done saving the world, now I'm hacking for myself. Bugger... that coffee was strong. ------------- David Lau-Kee Canon Research Centre Europe, 17/20 Frederick Sanger Rd, Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU25YD, UK. NRS: laukee@uk.co.canon, INET: laukee%canon@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: laukee@canon.uucp, PATH: ..!mcsun!ukc!uos-ee!canon!laukee Tel: +44 (0) 483 574325 Fax: +44 (0) 483 574360