mcneill@eplrx7.uucp (Keith McNeill) (08/22/90)
From: mcneill@eplrx7.uucp (Keith McNeill)
Are the 100X.X documents available via ftp from somewhere...or where could I
order them from.
Thanks,
Keith
--
Keith D. McNeill | E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.
eplrx7!mcneill@uunet.uu.net | Engineering Physics Laboratoryy
(302) 695-9353/7395 | P.O. Box 80357
| Wilmington, Delaware 19880-0357
Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 47donn@hpfcrn.fc.hp.com (Donn Terry) (08/23/90)
From: Donn Terry <donn@hpfcrn.fc.hp.com> The IEEE does not allow general access to the machine readable of any of its standards. The key reason is that there have actually been cases where someone gets it, modifies it slightly for their own benefit, and then prints it claiming it's the standard. Since that happened, the IEEE has been very careful about protecting its copyright and the machine readable. However, they do realize the world is changing, and that there is a need to have machine-readable for legitimate reasons. They are looking into it (but slowly, as befits a bureaucracy). (Someone at IEEE will kill me for saying that :-) ). They're defintely going to protect it somehow when it does become available; anonymous ftp doesn't seem real likely. Donn Terry Speaking only for myself, of course. Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 53
khb@Eng.Sun.COM (Keith Bierman - SPD Advanced Languages) (08/24/90)
From: khb@Eng.Sun.COM (Keith Bierman - SPD Advanced Languages)
In article <452@usenix.ORG> donn@hpfcrn.fc.hp.com (Donn Terry) writes:
...
The IEEE does not allow general access to the machine readable of any
of its standards. The key reason is that there have actually been cases
where someone gets it, modifies it slightly for their own benefit, and
then prints it claiming it's the standard. ...
Sounds like an excuse, not a reason. It would not be hard to publish
checksums.
In the X3 world the reason is painfully clear, money. X3 relies on the
revenues generated by selling copies of the standard to finance its
operations (this information is a fallout of numerous arguments
between x3j3 members and x3; I cannot vouch that it is true, but it
was/is certainly the reason copies of the x3j3 draft are ftpable)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Keith H. Bierman kbierman@Eng.Sun.COM | khb@chiba.Eng.Sun.COM
SMI 2550 Garcia 12-33 | (415 336 2648)
Mountain View, CA 94043
Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 56henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (08/25/90)
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >From: khb@Eng.Sun.COM (Keith Bierman - SPD Advanced Languages) > ...The key reason is that there have actually been cases > where someone gets it, modifies it slightly for their own benefit, and > then prints it claiming it's the standard. ... > >Sounds like an excuse, not a reason. It would not be hard to publish >checksums. But how do you convince people to run checksums on the documents and compare? Remember, the customers *will not* read the documentation even when it is clearly in their interests to do so -- and you want them to run checksums? (Setting aside the problem that there is no standard checksum program...) The only way this will work is if it is sufficiently automatic that whenever they display the document on their screens, a big red flashing label saying "FRAUDULENTLY ALTERED" appears underneath. Unfortunately, short of advanced cryptographic techniques, there's no way to make this work. This is not to deny that financial motives play a part. But prevention of fraud is a real and legitimate concern with no trivial solution. Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 59
Chuck.Phillips@FtCollins.NCR.COM (Chuck.Phillips) (08/25/90)
From: Chuck.Phillips@FtCollins.NCR.COM (Chuck.Phillips)
> On 24 Aug 90 05:49:57 GMT, khb@Eng.Sun.COM (Keith Bierman - SPD Advanced Languages) said:
Keith> In the X3 world the reason is painfully clear, money. X3 relies on the
Keith> revenues generated by selling copies of the standard to finance its
Keith> operations (this information is a fallout of numerous arguments
Keith> between x3j3 members and x3; I cannot vouch that it is true, but it
Keith> was/is certainly the reason copies of the x3j3 draft are ftpable)
Then how about making periodic releases of all ANSI (IEEE, etc.) standards
and current drafts on CD ROMs? Of couse, then we'd have to create a new
committee to define the cross index and search/retrieval data interface. ;^)
Seriously, this would allow us to create platform independent CD ROMs.
Machine dependent retrieval software often is included on CD ROMS due to
lack of said standards.
Cheers,
--
Chuck Phillips MS440
NCR Microelectronics Chuck.Phillips%FtCollins.NCR.com
2001 Danfield Ct.
Ft. Collins, CO. 80525 uunet!ncrlnk!ncr-mpd!bach!chuckp
Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 60hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick) (08/26/90)
From: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick) I find this a wierd argument. If IEEE makes their standards publically accessible, Rutgers will keep local copies FTP'd directly from IEEE, as we do for the RFC's. If they make it accessible only to "selected" people, we'll end up with unofficial copies coming indirectly from those selected people. Which do you think is more likely to result in accurate copies? The simplest method of authentication is for us to get things directly from IEEE. Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 61
randy@m2xenix.psg.com (Randy Bush) (08/27/90)
From: randy@m2xenix.psg.com (Randy Bush)
Hint. IEEE makes a lot of money by selling standards documents.
To really understand this, try being a committee chair when IEEE/HQ realizes
that your particular topic won't be selling a lot of diocuments for them.
--
..!{uunet,qiclab,intelhf}!m2xenix!randy
Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 67jsdy@hadron.COM (Joseph S. D. Yao) (08/30/90)
From: jsdy@hadron.COM (Joseph S. D. Yao) In article <462@usenix.ORG> Chuck.Phillips@FtCollins.NCR.COM (Chuck.Phillips) writes: >and current drafts on CD ROMs? Of couse, then we'd have to create a new >committee to define the cross index and search/retrieval data interface. ;^) I believe the latest issue of ;login: referenced standard-in-progress ANSI X3B11, or some such. Check the hardcopy for the true reference. (Well, this talked about WORM's: can't it apply?) [ The snitch report on X3B11.1 by Andrew Hume was also posted to comp.std.unix in Volume 20, Number 4, 19 May 1990. That entire report set is available by anonymous FTP from uunet.uu.net as ~ftp/comp.std.unix/reports/1990.06.Z and that specific report is currently available as ~ftp/comp.std.unix/v20/repdir/x3b11.1 from the same machine. For those with UUCP connections to UUNET, ~ftp is the same directory as ~uucp, so just substitute and use uucp. Get the file ~ftp/comp.std.unix/README or ~uucp/comp.std.unix/README for further details. -mod] Joe Yao jsdy@hadron.COM ( jsdy%hadron.COM@{uunet.UU.NET,decuac.DEC.COM} ) arc,arinc,att,avatar,blkcat,cos,decuac,\ dtix,ecogong,grebyn,inco,insight,kcwc, \ lepton,lsw,netex,netxcom,phw5,research, >!hadron!jsdy rlgvax,seismo,sms,smsdpg,sundc,telenet, / uunet / (Last I counted ...) Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 73
keld@login.dkuug.dk (Keld J|rn Simonsen) (08/31/90)
From: keld@login.dkuug.dk (Keld J|rn Simonsen) I am active within Danish Standards (DS, the Danish equivalent to ANSI), and we are providing an example national profile to POSIX. Our plans are to have the tables from this profile - and maybe others - available for anon ftp at the site dkuug.dk (129.142.96.41) in directory isp. The tables will consist of charmap and locale definition files. We will of cause resolve any copyright problems with IEEE concerned with this. Keld Simonsen member of Danish Standards S142u22A11 Volume-Number: Volume 21, Number 77