dan@soma.bcm.tmc.edu (Dan Johnston) (11/06/87)
We have an ethernet LAN in our laboratory consisting of 5 masscomps, 1 DEC
LSI 11/23, and several PCs. We would like to connect our LAN to
a similar but larger ethernet LAN at our institution (also running TCP/IP).
We will need some kind of ethernet bridge or gateway in order to do this, and
we would like to use one of our masscomps--a PEPed 5500--as this bridge or
gateway by running two ethernets from the same machine. My questions are as
follows:
1. Our local sales rep (who is next to worthless on technical questions)
says that masscomp has software called "Dual Net" that will do this
and allow us to run two ethernet boards in the same machine. Has
anyone out there heard of this software or had any experience with it?
Better yet, has anyone tried to do what we are attempting? If so, how
did you do it?
2. As part of our PEP package we got a Lance chip on the MPU motherboard.
We also have a 201 board on this machine, which we are currently using
for our ethernet. Does anyone know whether we can use the Lance chip as
our second ethernet or do we need to get another 201 board for this
machine?
Any help on this would be much appreciated.
dan johnston (dan@soma.bcm.tmc.edu)
baylor college of medicinedavid@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (David Robinson) (11/11/87)
In article <3256@soma.bcm.tmc.edu>, dan@soma.bcm.tmc.edu (Dan Johnston) writes: > > We have an ethernet LAN in our laboratory consisting of 5 masscomps, 1 DEC > LSI 11/23, and several PCs. We would like to connect our LAN to > a similar but larger ethernet LAN at our institution (also running TCP/IP). > We will need some kind of ethernet bridge or gateway in order to do this, and > we would like to use one of our masscomps--a PEPed 5500--as this bridge or > gateway by running two ethernets from the same machine. My questions are as > follows: > > 1. Our local sales rep (who is next to worthless on technical questions) > says that masscomp has software called "Dual Net" that will do this > and allow us to run two ethernet boards in the same machine. Has > anyone out there heard of this software or had any experience with it? > Better yet, has anyone tried to do what we are attempting? If so, how > did you do it? I have not actually used Dual Net but have had an extensive discussion with engineering about it. The software package allows you to connect one machine to two different networks and access either network from that machine. *BUT* it does not provide any gatewaying capablities at all. If you want to got from a machine on network A to a machine on network B you must first telnet/rlogin to the Dual Net machine and then telnet/rlogin to the second remote machine. In the past there was good reason why you could not do this, the Excelan [23]01 boards have the TCP/IP code onboard and the kernel has no easy way to provide a gateway function, gatewaying is done at the lower IP layer which the boards do not provide easy access to. Since the last major release of the ethernet software (number escapes me) you could run the Excelan boards in "link-layer" mode meaning that all TCP and IP processing is done in-kernel. The Kernel code is based on the 4.2bsd networking code and it supports gatewaying. BUT Masscomp for philisophical reasons has disabled this ability and will not allow gatewaying even for the in-kernel version. I argued quite strongly about this but their agrument (though invalid) is that a user shouldn't use a > $30K machine as a gateway and should buy a ~$10K dedicated gateway box instead. Mt argument is that money doesn't grow on trees and if I can use existing machines that I already own as a gateway then I should, especially if there is not *REAL* reason why it won't work. Having an older 68010 based machine that may not get much use if you have gotten 68020 or newer 68030 based machines would make a perfect gateway, instead of having it sit in a corner gathering dust. At JPL I use an old Sun-2 (68010) that is < 1MIPS as a gateway because I cannot justify $10K for a dedicated box and all of our users are using the MUCH faster MC 5600 and Sun-3 machines. Other groups have 68010 Masscomps that are gathering dust or even powered off because they cannot afford an upgrade and users will not use such a slow machine. These would make great gateways if they could. > 2. As part of our PEP package we got a Lance chip on the MPU motherboard. > We also have a 201 board on this machine, which we are currently using > for our ethernet. Does anyone know whether we can use the Lance chip as > our second ethernet or do we need to get another 201 board for this > machine? Theoretically it could (as stated above) but I am unsure if it is supported. If you run both the Lance and 201 in in-kernel mode with the Dual Net it might work. I suggest you contact MC engineering for confirmation first though. If others feel the same way, and do not think that it is a "waste" to have a Masscomp as a gateway call your local sales rep and complain. Maybe we can get enough people to call in and get them to support gatewaying. > dan johnston (dan@soma.bcm.tmc.edu) > baylor college of medicine -- David Robinson elroy!david@csvax.caltech.edu ARPA david@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov ames!elroy!david UUCP Disclaimer: No one listens to me anyway!
simon@masscomp.UUCP (Simon Rosenthal) (11/11/87)
Cc: In article <3256@soma.bcm.tmc.edu> dan johnston (dan@soma.bcm.tmc.edu) writes > >We have an ethernet LAN in our laboratory consisting of 5 masscomps, 1 DEC >LSI 11/23, and several PCs. We would like to connect our LAN to >a similar but larger ethernet LAN at our institution (also running TCP/IP). >We will need some kind of ethernet bridge or gateway in order to do this, and >we would like to use one of our masscomps--a PEPed 5500--as this bridge or >gateway by running two ethernets from the same machine. My questions are as >follows: > >1. Our local sales rep (who is next to worthless on technical questions) > says that masscomp has software called "Dual Net" that will do this > and allow us to run two ethernet boards in the same machine. Has > anyone out there heard of this software or had any experience with it? > Better yet, has anyone tried to do what we are attempting? If so, how > did you do it? DualNet is NOT what you want. Its a redundant ethernet for use if fail-safe communications capability is required. >2. As part of our PEP package we got a Lance chip on the MPU motherboard. > We also have a 201 board on this machine, which we are currently using > for our ethernet. Does anyone know whether we can use the Lance chip as > our second ethernet or do we need to get another 201 board for this > machine? >dan johnston (dan@soma.bcm.tmc.edu) >baylor college of medicine There will be no problem in running two network interfaces on the same machine (We do it at Westford .) I think that you can use the Lance chip and the Excelan Board, but you will need to run the Excelan board using in-kernel protocols. I suspect that you'll chew up most of the 5500 cpu cycles with a heavy network load, but if that's all you are going to use the machine for, then that shouldn't be a problem. Masscomp does not officially support this configuration, however ... - Simon Rosenthal MASSCOMP Marketing Engineering (Home for past MUS presidents )
Jeff@soma.bcm.tmc.edu (11/24/87)
Qotd: A mind is a terrible thing. > I have not actually used Dual Net but have had an extensive discussion > with engineering about it. The software package allows you to connect > one machine to two different networks and access either network from > that machine. *BUT* it does not provide any gatewaying capablities at > all. If you want to got from a machine on network A to a machine > on network B you must first telnet/rlogin to the Dual Net machine > and then telnet/rlogin to the second remote machine. In the past there > was good reason why you could not do this, the Excelan [23]01 boards > have the TCP/IP code onboard and the kernel has no easy way to > provide a gateway function, gatewaying is done at the lower IP layer which > the boards do not provide easy access to. Dual-Net is intended for redundancy (that is, 2 separate wires with the same network/host numbers) NOT for 2 distinct networks. It is most definitely NOT 2 network interfaces on the same host. (It is also a custom product that costs extra money, which you don't need to spend) > Since the last major > release of the ethernet software (number escapes me) you could run > the Excelan boards in "link-layer" mode meaning that all TCP and IP > processing is done in-kernel. The Kernel code is based on the > 4.2bsd networking code and it supports gatewaying. BUT Masscomp > for philisophical reasons has disabled this ability and will > not allow gatewaying even for the in-kernel version. Untrue, there is no such 'disabled' software. Simply do what you would expect to do to turn on the second interface (either LANCE & 201 or (2) 201 interfaces) with /etc/ifconfig, and it works. It is necessary to do a '# route add ...' command to enable the actual forwarding of packets. Interfaces must be link-level interfaces (tieln or lnexos in the config file rather than exos). At this time, we don't supply the 'routed' daemon, which is helpful, but not absolutely necessary for running/using a gateway. Now, the other problem is that there is no price list item for ordering the second interface, though many PEP customers actually already have it. Jeff Carter