slocum@hi-csc.UUCP (Brett Slocum) (06/23/87)
I realize that I have been guilty of this, but I wish that
people would stop comparing the DM to Emacs. I don't know
anyone who would think that the DM is more powerful than
Emacs as an editor. Several people have stated very strong
arguments for Emacs. I personally like it better than the
DM. The strength the DM has over Emacs is that it is integrated
into the environment and Emacs is not; the DM can be used
anywhere on the Apollo screen -- Emacs cannot (yes, I know,
you can run a shell from inside Emacs. But you still can't
touch the command window).
The same arguments can be made, though less strongly, for 'vi'
over the DM, but the DM still has the same strength of
integration. (BTW, SUNs do not have an integrated editor like
either the DM or Emacs. Just the history substitutions of 'csh',
and the 'again'-like mousing/scrolling/picking method).
The only system that I know of that has an Emacs-like editor
integrated into the system to the extent that the DM is, is
Symbolics (as has been pointed out). And as has been pointed
out, Zmacs is getting pretty slow.
As I said to Ashwin Ram, if Emacs could be integrated to the
same degree as the DM is, and remain as fast as the DM, I'd
buy it immediately. Since it is not, I will use Emacs for
editing large text files, and the DM for quick messages like
this one and for command line editing.
P.S. As far as 'cut and paste' between windows is concerned,
the same package of Apollo GNUEmacs extensions that uses
the GPR graphics also implements the 'cut' and 'paste' keys
on the Apollo keyboard in Emacs to use the same paste buffers
as when using those keys outside of Emacs. Therefore, you
can cut and paste between separate Emacs windows, and
also between Emacs windows and DM windows.
.dp@JASPER.PALLADIAN.COM (Jeffrey Del Papa) (06/23/87)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 87 16:44:29 cdt
From: Brett Slocum <hi-csc!slocum@umn-cs.ARPA>
The only system that I know of that has an Emacs-like editor
integrated into the system to the extent that the DM is, is
Symbolics (as has been pointed out). And as has been pointed
out, Zmacs is getting pretty slow.
The TI Explorer (and LMI Lmabda) also have integrated emacs. Since they have not
"improved" the window interface, they are still quite fast. ('bolics zmacs isn't that
bad when you aren't using the mouse, it is just that 7.0 really slowed the mouse
down)
<dp>dce@mips.UUCP (David Elliott) (06/24/87)
>In article <8706222144.AA03493@hi-csc.uucp> slocum@hi-csc.UUCP (Brett Slocum) writes: >The strength the [Apollo's ] DM has over Emacs is that it is integrated >into the environment and Emacs is not; the DM can be used >anywhere on the Apollo screen -- Emacs cannot (yes, I know, >you can run a shell from inside Emacs. But you still can't >touch the command window). The weakness of the DM editing facility as compared to Emacs or vi is that you can't map keys on a per-window basis. When I edit text, I want one set of mappings. When I'm programming, I want a different set; in fact, I want a different set for shell programming and C programming. I also want to be able to change the mappings in one text editing window and not another, and I don't want any of these changes to affect how my "shell" character mappings are affected. When DM can do this, it will be a useful editor. When I worked on Apollos, I chose to use vi because it didn't stick me with a single set of key bindings. -- David Elliott {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!dce
mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack) (06/26/87)
In article <481@quacky.UUCP>, dce@mips.UUCP (David Elliott) writes: > >In article <8706222144.AA03493@hi-csc.uucp> slocum@hi-csc.UUCP (Brett Slocum) writes: > > [stuff about why DM is better than Emacs] > [stuff about why Emacs is better than DM: binding different keys in > differnet windows, etc.] > David Elliott {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!dce Mr. Elliott missed an important point. The *real* reason(s) that Emacs is better than DM: 1) You don't need an Apollo to run it. 2) It's free. (Sort of.) If DM source code can be UUCP'd from someplace and ported to a Sun, I might be willing to reconsider. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dave Mack (from Mack's Bedroom :<) McDonnell Douglas-Inco, Inc. DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed 8201 Greensboro Drive are my own and in no way reflect the McLean, VA 22102 views of McDonnell Douglas or its (703)883-3911 subsidiaries. ...!seismo!sundc!hadron!inco!mack ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++