vskahan@lgnp1.LS.COM (Vince Skahan) (04/06/89)
[... frustrated flame on...I welcome comment but please lets not start a total flame war...I'll be happy to summarize any responses if there are lots of them...I just want to voice my concern to the folks in Chelmsford and I realize that most of the APollo folks who post to USENET are concerned, experienced, and able...] Can someone in Chelmsford please explain a few things to me ??? Over the last couple of years I've complained a little about Apollo's (ssemingly) silly quirks but I've almost always defended them to the death over anything else. I've seen nothing better but things can be improved. I've dealt with high turnover and low expertise on the hot-line as people came on board. I've put up with the stinkin' vt100 emulator that in my observation continues to get worse, not better. I've raved about how wonderful RAI is and how easy it makes my job. I've screamed because some of the SR10 versions (DPCC 3.0 for one) are not available in RAI format, making the use of an authorized area impossible (even though all SR10 versions are SUPPOSED to be in RAI format so we can hard-link). I've asked when RAI setup instructions are going to be made available to the general public to make third-party and local software installations just as easy and am living reasonably with the answer "it will be coming someday". I'd like to know which marketing genius is getting promoted in Chelsford for the following recent (dumb in my personal view) changes in focus and perpetuating the silliness of the past: - changing the DN3000 to have only one memory slot that takes only 4 or 8MB boards. Sure...they'd like us to all buy 4500's with 32 MB of memory and 700 MB disks but some of us have dozens of old 3000's and we need seats, not mips. What am I supposed to do with the old 4MB boards when SR1x.x comes up that takes more than 4MB of memory??? I'll be out of slots, out of capital, and floating in $2900.00 coasters for my Diet Coke cans. - how am I supposed to run anything other than the OS on a DSP90 that is maxed out at 3MB of memory. I have little confidence that I can run TCP, the OS, and a print server on 3MB. God help me if I try to run something that's memory intensive like a Cadre Database-controller server. What are the poor folks with DSP80's that are limited even more supposed to do ??? I could tolerate buying 4 generations of ethernet boards a couple of years ago within 9 months (com-eth, ecmb, eth-at, a-net-eth) but I can't handle planned/unplanned obsolecence of tens of thousands of dollars worth of hardware. I think within the next year or so I'll have to remove the hardware, drill a hole in the top, and make it a $25000 beer-meister. - shipping SR9.7 X-windows in RAI format not in the (old) install format. The release notes state that a full server installation takes 37 MB for the AA. Since you have to install from the AA (not tape) and you can't hard-link under SR9, it states that it's another 37 MB for the real in-place software. Sure...it says you can then delete the AA but where am I going to come up with 74 MB of disk space (plus the temporary room that RAI seems to need) and once I delete the AA to save room, what do I do when 2 months later someone else decides their project needs X too. - shipping SR10.x in my belief over 9 months before it was stable. I just got a 30 or so page set of notes from Apollo identifying bugs, misleading instructions and questions, and non-documented workarounds for SR10 installs only. It's ridiculous to me that these problems exist (although I DO give APollo some credit for being proactive and telling people (late is better than never))... you should do it once, do it right, and not jerk everyone around promoting real unix when you aren't ready yet...and the terrible thing is it'll happen again wehen the OSF gets their act together. - Why oh why does Apollo continue to refuse to release known bugs to the general public and expect us to have something fail, pull our hair out working with (and training ) the hotline before they kick it to R+D and 2 weeks later agree "yep...it's broke..." ??? Mentor Graphics sends out monthly sys_admin bulletins with identified problems and workarounds/statuses for many known bugs. I've seen 95 % of them already by the time the mail gets to me, but it DOES explain why it's broken and when it'll be fixed for their 3rd party software. Hey Apollo, make it look at least like you're trying a little, OK ??? - although documentation is getting better, why is it all still so lousy (JLRU, eh?). I'm still waiting to see in one book how to set up a ring correctly rather than learning it the hard way. I've been with Apollos since SR9.2.3 so I can do a lot by sheer experience but how do I train my replacement when he wants to see something clear, concise, and complete in writing and it doesn't exist unless I write it myself ?? if you're going to go to just like real unix, why did you ignore the details of basic but important things??? I agree completely with supplying third party books (like with the X product) but the Apollo-specific stuff is incomplete. Why do you devote about 3 pages to lpr when you should devote 23 ??? Why do you totally ignore things like printcap, termcap and apollo-apollo ring configuration. I've got 11 rings to deal with...why don;t the manuals say something about the timedelays in having 11 local site registries...it takes over 90 seconds sometimes to get the edacct> prompt back while opening all those sites. Where is the discussion of how to set up unix mail in a multi-ring internet and why are the sample sendmail.cf files so awful ??? The above are only a few unix-related examples since as one co-worker observed, unix is passed on from guru to apprentice by oral tradition only. The same (and more) apply for Aegis. - why did you make such a big deal about lprotect and then send the next OS out with "don't use this or else..." in big letters ??? If it's not ready, don't relase it until it is. - why did you change the node ACLing procedure when the old one wasn't broken and then give absolutely no example templates to have us run against the existing software to change the level of protection ??? Telling me to re-invol is just not good enough. That's bad enough but then I have to find out that in SR10.1 "open" means closed and "closed" means open ??? Please... (yet another instance where I heard it first and best on USENET...thanks to the thoughtful person out there whose name I misplaced who mentioned it here ). - why do I have to find out that patch tapes and PSK's are available third hand ??? I run the OS, I pay maint, I should get the tapes without asking and without searching. I'll take responsibility for deciding whether or not to install a particular patch. On that subject, why doesn't Apollo send out mandatory patches ??? Some of us are bound by third party software and can't immediately install a major release for a while...my SR9.6 sat in the box for 8 months...I have 5 of 80 nodes at SR10 now (9 months after its release) and won't upgrade everything until about November or so at the earliest. What am I supposed to do for my rings that are on segregated projects running one version of the software who will be at 9.7 for 18 months or so??? - who came up with the idea for spiral-binding the manuals ??? My hard-negotiated "right-to-copy" the manuals isn't worth the paper it was written on. - Since I've seen that RAI patches get deinstalled when you re-install them (real smart guys...), why can't I determine exactly what is installed and why can't you provide a de-install option for packages ??? Ultrix has a lovely feature that identifies what packages are installed and permits de-installs. - why does Apollo continually say that their disks don't fragment. Try using a DN3000 in a diskspace-bound ring for 18 months. Then invol one node and reinstall the same products. Then tell me that there is no difference. Why can't I tell how fragmented my disks are (I know...because they're not, right ???)? [...flame off finally...] I'm sick and tired of beating my head against a wall...I'd appreciate hearing some response from some APollo folks (and any comments from anyone else) regarding what the heck's going on and why ??? I don't want to buy from other vendors but Chelmsford's going to have to do a better job in having some more consideration for their installed customer base. You can reach me at (215) 591-4116 during working hours or by e-mail at bcsaic!vince or vince@atc.boeing.com Like I said, I'll summarize any responses I can if there are enough that haven't been said before... Thanks for bearing with me... -- Vince Skahan - please reply to skahan@boeing.com or bcsaic!psev!bcs212 Note: any comments expressed above are mine and have no relation to Boeing or the real nice folks who let me read news on their system...
grinstei@hawk.ulowell.edu (Georges Grinstein) (04/07/89)
subject: 1989 IFIP WG 5.10 INTERNATIONAL WORKING CONFERENCE
=======================================================================
Please pass this annnoucement along to additional interested people.
To obtain more information and a registration form, just reply to this
message, or to one of the other addresses in the announcement.
========================================================================
IFIP CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT
1989 IFIP WG 5.10 INTERNATIONAL WORKING CONFERENCE
ON WORKSTATIONS FOR EXPERIMENTATION
JULY 27 to 29, 1989
Organized by IFIP WG 5.10
Hosted by The University of Lowell
PROGRAM: The purpose of the conference is to provide an international
forum for the exchange of technical information on workstations used
for experimentation.
The conference format will consist of conference paper presentations and
workshops. Workshops can be classified as tutorial, informational or
for the purposes of producing output documents. Papers from all nations
are being solicited on the following topics, but are not limited to these:
Models of Workstation Environments
Experimental Visualization Workstations or Environments
Auditory Workstations
Multi-media Workstations
Integrated Scientific Workstations
Integrated Graphics and Imaging Environments
Supermini Workstations
Application Workstations
Interactive Super-Computing
International Standards and Profiles
Interconnection and Networking
User Interface Models and Designs
Information Object Standards for Interchange
Distributed Environments
Graphical Issues
Systems Issues
Issues in Perception
Human Factors
Deadlines to either program chairs:
Submissions - June 1, 1989
Camera Ready - July 15, 1989
Attendees will receive a PREPRINT of the Conference Papers and copies
of Workshop Position Papers. After the conference, all contributions
will be published as Conference Proceedings with an international
publisher.
PROGRAM COMMITTEE:
Bergeron, Encarnacao, ten Hagen, Hopgood, Kochan, Kromker, Kuijk,
Magalhaes, Mantyla, Mehl, Moltedo, Pickett, Reinfelds, Scheifler, Woodworth.
PROGRAM CHAIRS:
Jose Encarnacao (FRG)
Georges Grinstein (USA)
ORGANIZING COMMITTEE:
Georges Grinstein (USA) - General Chair
John Hurtado (USA) - U Lowell Conference Coordinator
CONFERENCE REGISTRATION :
For information on submittals and registration forms, please contact
chairs via one of the netmail or postal addresses below, or by phone.
Registration will be available at the Conference.
The registration fee is set at $250. A processing fee of $50 will be
charged on written cancellations received before 25 June 1989. After
that date, the full fee will be retained.
No refund will be made for people who have paid but do not attend.
However, the workshop postion papers and a preprint of the conference
papers will be mailed to them.
HOTEL INFORMATION:
Lowell Hilton
50 Warren Street
Lowell, MA 01852
Telephone: (508) 452-1200
Fax : (508) 453-4674
rates: $82/nite single; $97/nite double
75 Rooms are reserved for attendees. This block of rooms will be held
until July 5, 1989. Be sure to say you are attending the "IFIP 5.10
CONFERENCE" to get the Conference Rate and to credit our conference.
A guarantee (usually credit card) is required for arrival after 6PM.
Because of the National Folk Festival occurring during that weekend,
please register early:
****************************************************************
* Major other event in Lowell during that weekend: *
* *
* The National Folk Festival 7/28-7/30 (Fri-Sun) *
****************************************************************
Alternate hotel information is available From U Lowell.
AIRPORT/AIRLINE INFORMATION:
Logan International Airport in Boston is the closest major airport
served by all domestic and international airlines. It is managed by
the Massachusetts Port Authority (617) 567-2233.
For further conference information -- Send requests to:
University of Lowell Continuing Education
Attention - IFIP Conference
One University Avenue
Lowell, MA 01854
Phone: 1 - 508 - 454 - 4664
Internet: ifip@ulowell.edu
Bitnet: Boole3005009
Please send submissions to one of the co-chairs:
Dr. Georges Grinstein internet: grinstein@ulowell.edu
Graphics Research Laboratory phone: 1 - 508 - 452 - 5000 ext 2389
University of Lowell fax: 1 - 508 - 453 - 6586
Lowell, Massachussetts 01854 telex: 710 343 6461 ULCAR LOWE
USA
Dr. Jose Encarnacao internet: unido!zgdva!jle@uunet.uu.net
Graphische Datenverarbeitung uucp: ...mcvax!unido!zgdva!jle
Wilhelminenstrasse 7 phone: +49 - (0)6151 - 1000 - 29
6100 Darmstadt fax: +49 - (0)6151 - 1000 - 99
FRG telex: 4 197 367 agd d
Dr. Georges Grinstein Director - Graphics Research Laboratory
grinstein@ulowell.edu University of Lowell
(508)-452-5000 x2681 Lowell, MA 01854