dave@jplopto.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Dave Hayes) (10/06/89)
In the past few weeks I have noticed a marked discrepancy between the amount of questions asked on this newsgroup and the amount of answers received. I have recently posted an article to which I have gotten no response. This leads me to ask "Is this newsgroup alive?" "Does APOLLO listen?" "Does APOLLO care?" I can see that there may be some questions which have no real answers. But fully half of the queries posted here are met with the kind of silence that makes one think that one's post did not get through to everybody. Certainly if none of us users know the answer, someone from APOLLO (and some of these people have posted in the past) would be in a position to provide needed answers. Or at least a "Well, hey, got your message and we're working on it/looking at it/thinking about it/etc." But, alas, maybe I have too much faith in the good side of human nature. For certainly no one has to respond to anything. Maybe I expect too much. -Dave Hayes dave%jplopto@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov
derstad@CIM-VAX.HONEYWELL.COM ("DAVE ERSTAD") (10/08/89)
> > In the past few weeks I have noticed a marked discrepancy between > the amount of questions asked on this newsgroup and the amount of > answers received. > > I have recently posted an article to which I have gotten no response. > > This leads me to ask "Is this newsgroup alive?" "Does APOLLO listen?" > "Does APOLLO care?" > > I can see that there may be some questions which have no real answers. > But fully half of the queries posted here are met with the kind of > silence that makes one think that one's post did not get through to > everybody. > > Certainly if none of us users know the answer, someone from APOLLO (and > some of these people have posted in the past) would be in a position > to provide needed answers. Or at least a "Well, hey, got your message > and we're working on it/looking at it/thinking about it/etc." > > But, alas, maybe I have too much faith in the good side of human nature. > For certainly no one has to respond to anything. Maybe I expect too much. > > -Dave Hayes > dave%jplopto@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov I would not necessarily bash those people from Apollo who have responded in the past. As far as I'm aware, those folks are all interacting with this news group in an unofficial capacity. Thus, when I get a response from a system programmer at Apollo, I regard that as a privilege, not a right. I appreciate the fact they spend time to help us out, and don't expect them to solve all of our problems. One might argue that Apollo should have someone officially monitor the group, but that's not necessarily better than sending E-Mail APRs directly to Apollo since probably the same group of people would handle it (although it sure wouldn't hurt). I'd rather see Apollo spend effort and money improving the customer service group on hotline. I realize the volume of calls they get require some form of "triage," but In the last three months, I've had the following experiences: o Had a support person admit he doesn't know the answer, run down the hall to ask someone else, return with another question, have me provide the answer, run down the hall again, return with another followup question, etc., without allowing me to talk directly to the second person involved. (I'm pretty sure I know who he was talking to; I've talked to her before and in a small fraction of the time it actually took we could have resolved the issue) o Had a support person answer a question with a fairly definite response ("I'm almost positive that...") and, after a half hour of followup discussion, I finally realized that he didn't understand the question, didn't actually have the foggiest idea what the answer was, and should have known he was speaking out of his depth. o Had difficult times getting in touch with a number of different support people on different occasions, leading me to suspect that they're understaffed, at least in the areas of most interest to me (DSEE, Domain/Dialog, Compilers, and OS) I don't expect every support person to know everything, but it would be nice if the recognized the cases where the customer knows the product area better than they do, and pass the call promptly to someone who can help. In summary: o I personally consider this newsgroup more of a user forum, rather than a vehicle for communication with Apollo o The fact that there are questions unanswered should reflect on Apollo's customer service, rather than this newsgroup. What experiences do other have? Dave Erstad Principal Design Automation Engineer Honeywell SSEC DERSTAD@cim-vax.honeywell.com
tpfabian@nasamail.nasa.gov (THEODORE FABIAN) (10/08/89)
Regarding the following message....
-------------------------------------------------
In the past few weeks I have noticed a marked discrepancy between
the amount of questions asked on this newsgroup and the amount of
answers received.
I have recently posted an article to which I have gotten no response.
This leads me to ask "Is this newsgroup alive?" "Does APOLLO listen?"
"Does APOLLO care?"
I can see that there may be some questions which have no real answers.
But fully half of the queries posted here are met with the kind of
silence that makes one think that one's post did not get through to
everybody.
Certainly if none of us users know the answer, someone from APOLLO (and
some of these people have posted in the past) would be in a position
to provide needed answers. Or at least a "Well, hey, got your message
and we're working on it/looking at it/thinking about it/etc."
But, alas, maybe I have too much faith in the good side of human nature.
For certainly no one has to respond to anything. Maybe I expect too much.
-Dave Hayes
dave%jplopto@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov
-------------------------------------------------
I think you've hit on a good point... Apollo is not listening..
it seems with the buyout by HP of Apollo, things have changed
drastically...
I was at the ADUS Conference in New Orleans a couple of weeks ago,
and sadly, I think that the outcomes of the conference pretty much
sealed the fate of ADUS.. it seems that the HP group, whose name
escapes me at this time, want to swallow ADUS up..
Also, the wish list from last years ADUS Conference got only a
meager set of cursory answers at this past conference... one only
needs to imagine what this years wish list will yield in the way
of answers next year.. if ADUS is around next year...
btw... I'm interested in hearing about your thoughts on ADUS..
are you a member?? what did you think of the recent conference??
do you think the group will survive?? etc. etc. etc.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* Thanks, *
* *
* Ted Fabian *
* *
* NASA Lewis Research Center *
* Cleveland, Ohio *
* *
* phone: 216-433-6307 *
* FTS: 297-6307 *
* *
* email: tpfabian@nasamail.nasa.gov *
* tfabian@earth.lerc.nasa.gov *
* tfabian@csd.lerc.nasa.gov *
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -dave@jplopto.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Dave Hayes) (10/08/89)
In article <8910072136.AA02071@umix.cc.umich.edu> derstad@CIM-VAX.HONEYWELL.COM ("DAVE ERSTAD") writes: >As far as I'm aware, those folks are all interacting with this >news group in an unofficial capacity. Thus, when I get a response from >a system programmer at Apollo, I regard that as a privilege, not a right. That's very good. I can respect that viewpoint, even though it differs from mine. Keep in mind it is really difficult to remember that when you are up to your whatever in system regeneration of other undocumented behavior and you are behind schedule. But...point well taken, for surely no one is forced to be on the net. Even looking at that particular point with more scrutiny, I would also tend to think that being able to communicate directly with users via a forum like this is a privilege of another sort. However, mutual respect is still a voluntary thing. The *real* meat of my gripe is that we are CUSTOMERS, yet we are not really treated like customers ought to be treated. The "right" we have (if any can be so forcibly imposed) is to be able to use the tools and systems that we purchase. In my opinion that also means we have the right to timely and informative answers to any questions or problems that interfere with our ability to use our systems. Perhaps my misconception is that I do not make any distinction between different vehicles of communication...besides, what better place to alleviate some of the pressure on their customer service then the net? >I appreciate the fact they spend time to help us out, and don't expect them >to solve all of our problems. I appreciate that too, damned good of those brave souls who monitor the net and help us poor folk out from time to time. Alas, unlike you, I am hoplessly idealistic about responses being able to solve problems. >One might argue that Apollo should have someone officially monitor the group, >but that's not necessarily better than sending E-Mail APRs directly to >Apollo since probably the same group of people would handle it (although >it sure wouldn't hurt). Really? How does one send E-MAIL APR's? Is that kind of mechanism set up? >I'd rather see Apollo spend effort and money improving the customer service >group on hotline. Actually, there is better bandwidth for that here on the net or through E-MAIL. Phone calls take up much more "real-time" than sending an E-MAIL message, wouldn't you agree? >In summary: Ok..I can do that too...good idea! > o I personally consider this newsgroup more of a user forum, rather > than a vehicle for communication with Apollo What better place to communicate to Apollo than a user forum? > o The fact that there are questions unanswered should reflect on > Apollo's customer service, rather than this newsgroup. What > experiences do other have? It should reflect upon Apollo's communication skills as a company. I'd say that a lot of the blame goes to Customer Service, but with proper use of available resources...a lot of good could happen! >Dave Erstad Dave Hayes
goldfish@cspolo.cs.concordia.ca (Paul Goldsmith) (10/09/89)
In article <1989Oct5.224148.19484@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> dave%jplopto@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov writes: > In the past few weeks I have noticed a marked discrepancy between > the amount of questions asked on this newsgroup and the amount of > answers received. > ... > This leads me to ask "Is this newsgroup alive?" "Does APOLLO listen?" > "Does APOLLO care?" > > ... > > Certainly if none of us users know the answer, someone from APOLLO (and > some of these people have posted in the past) would be in a position > to provide needed answers. Or at least a "Well, hey, got your message > and we're working on it/looking at it/thinking about it/etc." Dave ( and anyone else out there who is listening) Yes there are people out here who hear you. Unfortunately, my inquiries with Apollo get only that: - they neither acknowledge the use of internet, nor - officially support its use. I have spent some time talking on the phone with "the powers that be" at Apollo and while they always respond politely, the issue of providing hard information to knowledgeable customers seems to create some difficulties. Several of their people have undertaken to post comments to this group, however, I believe this is on an unofficial basis only. Perhaps the thing to do is for EVERYONE reading this group to dial the customer support 800 number and verbally register a request to have an official Apollo representative posting to this group. Perhaps that should be accompanied by a letter from your organizations' purchasing officer... A while back a Mr. Jim Wright offered to provide an anonymous FTP site for the almost mythical Apollo patch tapes and other Apollo specific data of a general interest. I have seen nothing since his original posting, though he did reply to my note thanking him for his initiative. (What is happening on that front Jim?) While we keep hearing that Apollo is now part of HP and "eventually" the support issue will be delt with, "eventually" we will all be dead; and systems run in the present tense. I encourage anyone at Apollo to comment on this posting. I challenge Apollo to post an official reply. Paul Goldsmith goldfish@concour.cs.concordia.ca - Goldfish (Shirley Maclaine told me there would be LIFETIMES like this)
marc@apollo.HP.COM (Marc Gibian) (10/09/89)
As the Project Engineer responsible for Apollo email software, I can say that I attempt to respond as quickly as possible to postings in this news group, or any other for that matter, when it seems appropriate. There are times when a private email response is more appropriate, and those too are sent as quickly as I can. There are times, though, that I am unable to do this a promptly as I would like... I am out of town for a week, I get assigned to something for a few weeks that prevents me from reading ANY news, even the most important groups, or I have to research a problem. In these cases, I will get a response out, it just takes longer than most of you would like, and in fact longer than I would like. I know there are many other Project Engineers that give this the same level of effort... but, as you could probably guess, we are rather busy right now. So we continue to do our best to keep up with news that needs responses... Marc S. Gibian Project Engineer, email project: Apollo Systems Division of HP Internet: marc@apollo.hp.COM NETel: Apollo: 508-256-6600 x2077 (Copyright 1989 by author. All rights reserved. Free redistribution allowed.)
oj@apollo.HP.COM (Ellis Oliver Jones) (10/09/89)
In article <1989Oct5.224148.19484@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> dave%jplopto@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov writes: >I have recently posted an article to which I have gotten no response. >This leads me to ask "Is this newsgroup alive?" "Does APOLLO listen?" >"Does APOLLO care?" For what it's worth, our news-posting software has been "living in interesting times" lately, because HP makes extensive internal use of news, and we've been getting updated to be compatible with that. For a while, outbound postings were fouled up. Therefore, someone may have answered your posting, and you may not have received the answer. Sorry. Sometimes a posting gets a personal email response, rather than a posted response. So it's not completely fair to assume nobody here at HP-Apollo is paying attention when someone else's article doesn't get responded to. We USENET users are not supposed to use USENET for commercial purposes, and formal customer support is definitely a commercial enterprise. So I hope you won't hold it against my co-workers in the customer support department if they don't always receive or respond to USENET messages. And, I hope you won't hold it against me and other apollo R&D USENET readers if we sometimes don't answer every question. All of us are very interested in making sure our customers succeed, but sometimes the best way to do that is to spend a couple of weeks hustling to get the sr10.2 bits in the can, rather than reading news. OK, OK, I confess, I haven't looked at news for a couple of weeks, because of SR10.2 :-) Excuses, excuses, I know. Sorry. You should know that many postings with useful questions and/or serious problem reports do get circulated and (sometimes) acted on here at Apollo. I looked back in the history for your message. It got flushed... Why don't you repost it? Ollie Jones (speaking for myself, not necessarily for HP Apollo Systems Division; this disclaimer is for real, not just a formality; I'm not authorized to speak on behalf of the company in this forum.)
paul@SPEEDMETAL.ENGIN.UMICH.EDU (paul killey) (10/10/89)
This leads me to ask "Is this newsgroup alive?" "Does APOLLO listen?" "Does APOLLO care?" I'm afraid that recent uucp changes on umix may be to blame for some problems. I should have been more on the ball, etc. Maybe people could ax their questions again. But, alas, maybe I have too much faith in the good side of human nature. For certainly no one has to respond to anything. Maybe I expect too much. Dave, I'm afraid that your faith in accurately shuffling news and mail around has been misplaced! Let's give apollo another chance. Pretty soon, the apollo mailing list will be moving from umix.cc.umich.edu to caen.engin.umich.edu. the umix address will still work (the yale address still works!). I used to be at the comp center, which is where umix is. Now I am at CAEN, right across the street. I actually have been here since April. The apollo list will be run on an apollo machine (umix is a Vax 750). I think I am almost caught up on mailing list additions/deletions. Bark if you think I am not. --paul
ALBRECHT%caliph@UMIX.CC.UMICH.EDU (Steve Albrecht) (10/10/89)
Submitting APRs vua UUCP is documented with MKAPR (Make APR) on page 2-277 of AEGIS COMMAND REFERENCE, Order # 002547-A00 for those of you with SR10 manuals. I have used addresses to particular support people in the past, which was quite convenient. (::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::) ) Steve Albrecht - IntelliCorp, Inc. - Knowledge Systems Product Development ) ( "Opinions expressed here are my own, if anyone's, and not my employer's." ( ) DDS albrecht@intellicorp.com : COMPUSERVE 73657,1342 ( ( UUCP ...!sun!intellicorp.com!albrecht : public bbs (415)969-5643 ) ) or ...!sun!icmv!albrecht : "c"omment to sysop ( (::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::) -------
achille@cernvax.UUCP (achille petrilli) (10/11/89)
As I asked 2 questions recently, I'd like to confirm that I got private e-mail from Apollo's nice guys, who helped me (thanks !). I have the answer to one of those questions, may be this can help other people: Q: rmt_scsi driver cannot be open from fortran for sequential unformatted access: A: bug in rmt_scsi fixed in a the next Omniback patch, sr10.2. To be fair, I'll say that I got very often e-mail from Apollo people when they could help. Achille Petrilli Cray & PWS Operations
jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Jim Wright) (10/11/89)
I'm just a tiny cog in the vast machine of Apollo sites, but I've made my share of squeaks in the past. I'd like to thank all Apollo folks for past and hopefully future support provided to net users. I really think this is the way to go. In article <1341@clyde.Concordia.CA> goldfish@cspolo.CS.Concordia.CA (Paul Goldsmith) writes: | | A while back a Mr. Jim Wright offered to provide an anonymous FTP site for the | almost mythical Apollo patch tapes and other Apollo specific data of a general | interest. I have seen nothing since his original posting, though he did reply | to my note thanking him for his initiative. (What is happening on that front | Jim?) I got ZERO response from anyone/anything at Apollo. The offer still stands, but I consider the ball to be in Apollo's court. In conjunction with comp.virus/VIRUS-L, we have established a number of archive sites throughout the world. These support various computers as well as holding back issues, documentation and tech reports. This past summer we added a number of sites to support Unix virus/worm/security issues. The archives include the Internet Worm reports, Sun patch tapes, various security fixes, etc. The "getting together" phase was just being wrapped up at the end of summer. Before the sites could be coordinated or filled with goodies, the academic year began. Traffic amongst the site coordinators lately has been low. The structure is there, but things haven't really taken off yet. I generally coordinate all the archives, but actively "head" the IBMPC sites. I don't have the time to dive into the Unix stuff as I would like to. Chris Myers has volunteered to head up the Unix archives. I'll include the current list of sites. Anyone with interest in this is invited to contact Chris or myself. Another contact would be Ken van Wyk, moderator of comp.virus/VIRUS-L. His job is with the Computer Emergency Response Team at CMU, and he would like to see comp.virus expand to include more Unix related discussion. (He's currently away for a few weeks, so be patient.) Chris Myers, chris@wugate.wustl.edu Ken van Wyk, krvw@sei.cmu.edu Jim Wright, jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu ------------------ # Anti-viral and security archive sites for Unix # Listing last changed 30 September 1989 # Note that this listing is preliminary, and will likely change. # I know the information is far from complete, but I thought it would # be a good idea to get this out now instead of wait. attctc Charles Boykin <sysop@attctc.Dallas.TX.US> Accessible through UUCP. cs.hw.ac.uk Dave Ferbrache <davidf@cs.hw.ac.uk> NIFTP from JANET sites, login as "guest". Electronic mail to <info-server@cs.hw.ac.uk>. Main access is through mail server. The master index for the virus archives can be retrieved as request: virus topic: index For further details send a message with the text help The administrative address is <infoadm@cs.hw.ac.uk> netCS Hans Huebner <huebner@db0tui6.bitnet> netCS is a public access Unix site in Berlin which is also accessible through UUCP. sauna.hut.fi Jyrki Kuoppala <jkp@cs.hut.fi> Accessible through anonymous ftp, IP number 128.214.3.119. (Note that this IP number is likely to change.) ucf1vm Lois Buwalda <lois@ucf1vm.bitnet> Accessible through... wuarchive.wustl.edu Chris Myers <chris@wugate.wustl.edu> Accessible through anonymous ftp, IP number 128.252.135.4. A number of directories can be found in ~ftp/usenet/comp.virus/*. -- Jim Wright jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu
dave@jplopto.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Dave Hayes) (10/11/89)
In article <VJIJ-2840-6932@nasamail> tpfabian@nasamail.nasa.gov (THEODORE FABIAN) writes: > btw... I'm interested in hearing about your thoughts on ADUS.. > are you a member?? what did you think of the recent conference?? > do you think the group will survive?? etc. etc. etc. > > Sadly, I am not a member of ADUS. If I only had the time, I would be. I spend all my time hacking APOLLO systems.... As an example, it is...oh...about 1:30AM at the time I post this. -Dave Hayes No .sig till I get my APOLLO's up on the internet.
dave@jplopto.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Dave Hayes) (10/11/89)
Ollie Jones writes: >For what it's worth, our news-posting software has been "living >in interesting times" lately, because HP makes extensive internal >use of news, and we've been getting updated to be compatible >with that. For a while, outbound postings were fouled up. Therefore, >someone may have answered your posting, and you may not have received >the answer. Sorry. OH! Ok...I had thought that this might be the case, but you never know until you actually make some noise. >And, I hope you won't hold it against me and >other apollo R&D USENET readers if we sometimes >don't answer every question. Not personally, no. Ideally you guys would at least ACKNOWLEDGE most messages that don't get much of an answer (e.g. "Gee, uh...got your message but couldn't answer it"). >I looked back in the history for your message. It got flushed... >Why don't you repost it? Well...all I really want are valid template files for use with INPROT that give you as secure a system as the darned ACL's can make it. When I posted my original message, I was struggling with things like finding out which parts of the OS I could get away with protecting before the OS was protected against itself. I just figured that it was truly a waste to provide INPROT and not provide templates. You guys had templates at 9.7, why not at 10.1? -Dave Hayes
tim@apollo.HP.COM (Timothy R. Giebelhaus) (10/12/89)
I want to stress that I am talking for myself and not necessarily
Apollo/HP in the first part of this article.
Like Dave E. says, help over the news system is a privilege, NOT a right.
The people in R&D are being extremely kind in donating their time to
helping people with their problems directly. It is not something they are
required to do. It is customer service's job to field questions from the
general public.
The people in customer service who answer questions over news are being
kind in that that they are not checking to see who payed a service contract
and they are not given credit for the time they spend giving the answer.
Now, this may be a problem. Getting help over news seems to be something
which more than a few customers desire. There are some problems with
this though. Apollo/HP can't afford to give unlimited free help to every
person who has bought their machines. I'm sure everyone sees that
Apollo/HP would not be in bussiness for very long at all if they attempted
to give all this free help.
So, what Apollo/HP and other companies do is offer service contracts.
This is a method of recovering the cost of giving help to the customers who
buy the machines. The service contract is necessary so the company can
stay profitable and still offer help. If the company is not profitable,
the company ceases to exist.
Now the company needs some method of verifing that a customer has a service
contract before helping them... else why would the customer buy the service
contract. If news is used to answer questions, there is no way to verify
that the customer has a service contract and so a service contract is no longer
necessary for the customer.
I had seen it written in one of the articles that the customers have a right
to have a working machine and thus, it was implied, they have a right to all
the free help necessary in order to get the machine working. No computer
vendor would be so foolish to try to sell something as complicated as a
workstation and promise that it works 100%. The workstation is sold with
problems (many of them are documented at the time of the sale). The customer
is then offered a service contract to help take care of the problems the
workstation does have. Without the service contract or any software update
rights, the software stays as is bought. All companies do this... at least
all that are still in business. It is back to the free help, no contract,
no profit, no company problem.
Please feel free to use the news, but please remember it is not an
offical way of getting help. Customer service is the offical way of
getting help. If anyone has suggestions for how to make news help practical,
please let me know and I'll make sure it is seriously considered by
Apollo/HP management.
As for ADUS, it is not owned by Apollo/HP. Thus, nothing will happen to it
that ADUS does not wish to happen to it. It is true, however, that Apollo does
make donations to ADUS which they may or may not stop doing. In such a case
dues or some other fund raising method would be necessary to maintain ADUS.
As Apollos and HP machines become the same, I would see joining the HP
organization as a plus... but that is just the way I see it.
Having said all this, let me say that all of the above is my personal
view and may or may not be anything my company agrees with. The below,
I believe, I can say officially.
IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH CUSTOMER SERVICE SOFTWARE SUPPORT IN NORTH
AMERICA, please give me a call, and I will help you out. If you are in
the North Central region (North Dakota to Pittsburg to Kentucky to
Kansas) I can help you out direclty. If you are outside the region, I
can set you up with people who can help you.
I am not saying, I can give you things outside of your contract. The
resources do not exist for that. I'll work very long hours till you do
get the service you are buying, though.
You can reach me at:
Tim Giebelhaus
Apollo Computer
7900 International Dr.
Bloomington, MN 55425
Phone: (612) 854-5791
FAX: (612) 854-7191
Voice mail: (800) 631-3511 x9557
E-mail: tim@apcimsp.uucp
tim@apollo.hp.com
UUCP: uunet!hi-csc!giebelhaus
ARPA: hi-csc!giebelhaus@umn-cs.arpa
Nobody I know admits to sharing my opinions. I don't even have a pet
which will share my opinion.jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Jim Wright) (10/13/89)
In article <462f7f81.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> tim@apollo.HP.COM (Timothy R. Giebelhaus) writes: | Like Dave E. says, help over the news system is a privilege, NOT a right. [and good explanation of why this is so] | If anyone has suggestions for how to make news help practical, | please let me know and I'll make sure it is seriously considered by | Apollo/HP management. I don't think help for individuals' problems will ever be practical using news. But I think there is a place for publicly releasing information. Informing customers of common, known problems (often merely problems with customers misunderstanding something) seems a good thing. Also releasing a list of what is on the patch tapes. I'm not asking to get free patches, but I don't think it is unreasonable to know what is on past and forthcoming tapes. I can only see that generating interest in obtaining service contracts. It would also seem practical to use email in addition to telephones to provide individual customer support. Requiring the service contract number would be easy and easily enforceable. I am generally more coherent when I have the chance to sit down and organize things at my leisure. I can see a few arguments against this, so I'm not holding my breath. (The more I think about this, the more reasons I can see against it. In fact, I'm kind of surprised that bug reports via email are allowed. :-) | IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH CUSTOMER SERVICE SOFTWARE SUPPORT IN NORTH | AMERICA, please give me a call, and I will help you out. This is true. I've gotten help from Tim in the past. He's been knowledgeable and responsive. Thanks! -- Jim Wright jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu
wescott@LNIC1.HPRC.UH.EDU (Andrew M. Wescott) (10/13/89)
Okay, I'm convinced that this news group is not dead. But then I never said it was. I have received countless unofficial responses from Chelmsford folks the past year. Things did seem to tail off recently but I think excuses relating to the transition, etc. are valid ones. Its obvious from all the internal responses on this question that Apollo employees are still interested in an "unofficial" way. In regard to the real Customer Support people, I think we should count our blessings. Overall, they do a very good job. I've heard some real horror stories about customer service at other anonymous workstation companies. Let's move on to solving problems. I'm alive ! How about you ? Andrew Wescott University of Houston Department of Chemical Engineering
abair@turbinia.oakhill.uucp (Alan Bair) (10/13/89)
In article <462f7f81.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> tim@apollo.HP.COM (Timothy R. Giebelhaus) writes:
..... Deleted .....
I agree with what you described in the sections I have deleted.
Please feel free to use the news, but please remember it is not an
offical way of getting help. Customer service is the offical way of
getting help. If anyone has suggestions for how to make news help practical,
please let me know and I'll make sure it is seriously considered by
Apollo/HP management.
Since you asked for ideas here is one, which may be available, but I am not
aware of it. We use both Apollo and Sun equipment in the area I work.
Since I have had trouble getting timely responses from Sun on phone calls,
I starting using there email service address. I found that I was able to
get a reasonably fast response and if follow up was required by phone I
usually got direct access to the people with the answer. Going the route
of calling generally meant you had to deal with a middle man.
Now I am not saying Apollo has the same problem, but many times it may be
more convenient to seek information through email, like the people are doing
that started this discussion. There was a mention of sending in APRs(?)
by email, which I have done. However, as I understand it, you are only
suppose to do this AFTER discussing the problem through the support center.
Please correct me if I am wrong about this policy.
As far as assuring that the support is mainly going to paying customers,
Sun handles this by requiring certain information about your equipment to
validate that you have a service contract. Apollo/HP could do the same
thing, with the site ID being one of those pieces of information.
One final note, Mentor goes even a step further by having a BBS. With this
system, you can get the latest bug reports, release notes, etc. Problems
can be uploaded and fixes or other helpfull items can be downloaded. I
have heard of other companies providing this capablilty. Again to keep
this restricted to service contract holders, before using the service
you have to request an ID and password.
I think this covers some of the possiblities of handling support
by electronics means. Please consider these ideas in any discussions
you may have on improving user support.
Alan Bair
SPS CAD Austin, Texas
Motorola, Inc.
UUCP cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!turbinia!abair