gfink@iris.ucdavis.edu (George Fink) (10/04/90)
Currently, in our apollo lab here, (DN3000 running 10.1), when we need
to edit on an external (non-apollo) machine via rlogin, telnet, etc.,
we are required to run the vt100 emulator to get the full power of
curses, etc. Unfortunately, this emulator is buggy and also clobbers
many of the nice apollo dm cursor keys and movements, etc.
So seeking to avoid the vt100 emulator, I want to find an accurate
termcap for a pad, such as is created by the command `cp /bin/csh`.
The standard termcap, found in many /etc/termcap files, and labeled as
`apollo`, is incomplete and insufficient.
How do people get around this problem? I want to run emacs on an
external machine! Without the emulator crashing every time I exit, or
without phantom characters printing to the screen.
The apollo termcap we are using (and this seems to be on all our local
machines) is:
TERMCAP=z8|apollo:al=\EI:am:bs:cd=\EJ:ce=\EK:ch=\EN%d:cl=^L:cm=\EM%+\040%d):cv=\EO+\040:dc=\EP:dl=\EL:do=\EB:ei=\ER:im=\EQ:mi:nd=\EC:se=\ET:sf=\EE:so=\ES:sr=\ED:te=\EX:ti=\EW:ue=\EV:ul:up=\EA:us=\EU:co#88:li#53:
This does do some things correctly (clear the screen), but actions like
placing the cursor in an arbitrary position do not work.
Thanks for any help anybody can provide, mail me for more details on
any of the above issues.
--George
George Fink | gfink@{clover,iris}.ucdavis.edu
University of California, Davis | ucbvax!ucdavis!{clover,iris}!gfinkglenn@huxley.huxley.bitstream.com (Glenn P. Parker) (10/04/90)
In article <7755@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, gfink@iris.ucdavis.edu (George Fink) writes: > How do people get around this problem? I want to run emacs on an > external machine! Without the emulator crashing every time I exit, or > without phantom characters printing to the screen. Do an end run around the problem: don't use the buggy vt100 emulator. Switch to X and use an xterm, which has reasonably good vt100 emulation. -- Glenn P. Parker glenn@bitstream.com Bitstream, Inc. uunet!huxley!glenn 215 First Street BIX: parker Cambridge, MA 02142-1270
rees@pisa.ifs.umich.edu (Jim Rees) (10/04/90)
In article <7755@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, gfink@iris.ucdavis.edu (George Fink) writes:
Currently, in our apollo lab here, (DN3000 running 10.1), when we need
to edit on an external (non-apollo) machine via rlogin, telnet, etc.,
we are required to run the vt100 emulator to get the full power of
curses, etc. Unfortunately, this emulator is buggy and also clobbers
many of the nice apollo dm cursor keys and movements, etc.
The way I do this is with X. For just a straight vt100 window, use xterm.
For emacs, I recommend you get epoch, the multi-window X based emacs.
You still lose DM features, but with the appropriate keydefs you can at
least cut and paste between X and DM pads.nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) (10/04/90)
In article <7755@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> gfink@iris.ucdavis.edu (George Fink) writes: >So seeking to avoid the vt100 emulator, I want to find an accurate >termcap for a pad, such as is created by the command `cp /bin/csh`. Pads are not terminals. They are an evolutionary dead-end inspired by the thought that workstations would make terminals obsolete. DM pads do not support cursor addressing. >How do people get around this problem? I want to run emacs on an X. -- Alphalpha Software, Inc. | motif-request@alphalpha.com nazgul@alphalpha.com |----------------------------------- 617/646-7703 (voice/fax) | Proline BBS: 617/641-3722 I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
gfink@iris.ucdavis.edu (George Fink) (10/05/90)
In article <GLENN.90Oct4103026@huxley.huxley.bitstream.com> glenn@huxley.huxley.bitstream.com (Glenn P. Parker) writes: > >In article <7755@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, >gfink@iris.ucdavis.edu (George Fink) writes: >> How do people get around this problem? I want to run emacs on an >> external machine! Without the emulator crashing every time I exit, or >> without phantom characters printing to the screen. > Do an end run around the problem: don't use the buggy vt100 emulator. >Switch to X and use an xterm, which has reasonably good vt100 emulation. > -- >Glenn P. Parker glenn@bitstream.com Bitstream, Inc. > uunet!huxley!glenn 215 First Street > BIX: parker Cambridge, MA 02142-1270 I don't want to use the buggy vt100 emulator, but due to political problems here (we're working on it!) we don't have X, and it is likely that we won't in the near future. If somebody had a good manual for apollo /bin/csh pads, what control sequences are useful for them, etc., that would be sufficient! --George -- George Fink | gfink@{clover,iris}.ucdavis.edu University of California, Davis | ucbvax!ucdavis!{clover,iris}!gfink
weber_w@apollo.HP.COM (Walt Weber) (10/05/90)
In article <GFINK.90Oct4133823@iris.ucdavis.edu>, gfink@iris.ucdavis.edu (George Fink) writes: |> I don't want to use the buggy vt100 emulator, but due to political |> problems here (we're working on it!) we don't have X, and it is likely |> that we won't in the near future. If somebody had a good manual for |> apollo /bin/csh pads, what control sequences are useful for them, etc., |> that would be sufficient! |> --George The reason for the existence of the VT100 emulator is because standard display-manager shell windows consist of an input portion, and a "history" portion called a transcript pad. The transcript pad is actually a disk object (containing the text) which is mapped onto the display. As a disk file, operations like "clear to end of line" or "enable highlight" just don't seem to be appropriate (:-). Thus, the vt100 emulator reads the output from a program, parses it for control sequences, and "paints" the characters into a graphic object. You'll also see programs like "vctl" and "vsize" which give the ability to query/modify some of the behaviors of the emulators. Sorry that the "short answer" is "no cursor control on pads", hopefully you understand the WHY now. ...walt... Walt Weber Hewlett Packard Response Center 508-256-6600x8315 Chelmsford, MA, USA "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" -George Bernard Shaw
krowitz@RICHTER.MIT.EDU (David Krowitz) (10/05/90)
There is also a way to use the DM editor to edit files on other non-Apollo Unix systems. You can use the V2 demo program which is included in the /domain_examples/streams directory. V2 is a demo IOS type manager which traps your Apollo I/O stream requests (ie. open-file, read-rec, seek, etc) and passes them along to a V2 server program running on the non-Apollo Unix machine. We use a slightly modified version of this demo to allow our DM editor (or vi, cp, /com/catf, ls -l, etc. for that matter) to edit files on our Alliant FX/40 running BSD 4.3. We have also used it in the past on a Sun3/160. It's not great, but it's cheap, available, and it works well enough for us. Our mods were to loosen up the file protections a little (the version in /domain_examples requires the UID/GID numbers in /etc/passwd to be consistant across the machines, we altered our version to require that the user login-name be consistant instead). -- David Krowitz krowitz@richter.mit.edu (18.83.0.109) krowitz%richter.mit.edu@eddie.mit.edu krowitz%richter.mit.edu@mitvma.bitnet (in order of decreasing preference)
krowitz@RICHTER.MIT.EDU (David Krowitz) (10/05/90)
You want "Programming with Domain/OS Calls", order number 005506-A00,
pages 5-61, 5-62.
There aren't a lot of control sequences that an Apollo pad will respond
to (pads are, by definition, not tty emulators). They are:
sequence decimal action
======== ======= ======
cr 13 move cusor to start of current line
esc 27 escape character
ff 12 make following out start at top of window
or window pane
nl 10 newline - following text starts on a new line
tab 9 move cursor to next tab stop
bs 8 move cusor left one char -- only meaningful
for fixed-width fonts
esc[line;columnH 6 char seq. move cursor to specified line, col. If used
outside of a frame (ie. in a /bin/csh pad),
ignores line number and just moves to column
esc[0K 27 "[" "0" "K" erase line from cursor to end of line
esc[1K 27 "[" "1" "K" erase line from start to cursor
esc[2K 27 "[" "2" "K" erase entire current line
esc[0J 27 "[" "0" "J" erase chars in a frame from cusor to EOL
esc[1J 27 "[" "1" "J" erase from start of line to cusor
esc[2J 27 "[" "2" "J" erase entire frame
No other command sequences are listed that I know of.
-- David Krowitz
krowitz@richter.mit.edu (18.83.0.109)
krowitz%richter.mit.edu@eddie.mit.edu
krowitz%richter.mit.edu@mitvma.bitnet
(in order of decreasing preference)wjw@eba.eb.ele.tue.nl (Willem Jan Withagen) (10/08/90)
In article <4d376814.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> weber_w@apollo.hp.com writes: > >In article <GFINK.90Oct4133823@iris.ucdavis.edu>, gfink@iris.ucdavis.edu >(George Fink) writes: >|> I don't want to use the buggy vt100 emulator, but due to political [ and more details ] > >The reason for the existence of the VT100 emulator is because standard >display-manager shell windows consist of an input portion, and a "history" >portion called a transcript pad. The transcript pad is actually a disk [ and more details] > >...walt... > >Walt Weber Hewlett Packard Response Center ========> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've been rereading the HP response to the open letter (which dated sept. 17th) and now I wonder if this is one of the OFFICIAL response persons promissed by Hpollo. If this is the case: 1) Welcome Walt(and 'friends'). 2) Hope to hear a lot more from you on the net. If this is not the case: 1) To bad, how long it it going to take? 2) Still hope to hear more from you. Another question is: The hotline service => HOW, WHAT and WHERE? But first I'm going to anoy my sales rep with this question! Ciao, Willem Jan Withagen. Eindhoven University of Technology DomainName: wjw@eb.ele.tue.nl Digital Systems Group, Room EH 10.10 BITNET: ELEBWJ@HEITUE5.BITNET P.O. 513 Tel: +31-40-473401 5600 MB Eindhoven The Netherlands