tfabian@falcon (Teddy Fabian) (10/01/90)
sorry to waste bandwidth...
I've received mail in the past few weeks from two folks
with addresses at APOLLO.COM... I've tried to reply to them
both and had mail bounce..
so, specifically to
ROD@APOLLO.COM
yes, I'm interested in hearing more about what you asked..
HOLBROOK@APOLLO.COM
thanks for the info you sent... it's quite useful...
please either try to contact me voice, or privde an alternate email
address....
Ted Fabian NASA Lewis Research Center
216-433-6307
--
----------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Ted Fabian NASA Lewis Research Center
tfabian@falcon.lerc.nasa.gov *my opinions
tfabian@mars.lerc.nasa.gov *are my own..tomg@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Thomas J. Gilg) (10/02/90)
> I've received mail in the past few weeks from two folks > with addresses at APOLLO.COM... I've tried to reply to them > both and had mail bounce.. The gateway to Apollo is 15.20.88.126 apollo.hp.com Atleast within HP/Apollo, apollo.com doesn't exist [anymore]. Thomas Gilg tomg@cv.hp.com
nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) (10/02/90)
In article <1990Sep30.171715.4183@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> tfabian@falcon (Teddy Fabian) writes: >I've received mail in the past few weeks from two folks >with addresses at APOLLO.COM... I've tried to reply to them >both and had mail bounce.. I was going to post a reply to you, but your from address is 'tfabian@falcon', which isn't going to get very far. I'm not suprised you can't send mail to anyone. You don't say what the bounce was, however you might try user@apollo.hp.com, although I've had no trouble using apollo.com. -kee -- Alphalpha Software, Inc. | motif-request@alphalpha.com nazgul@alphalpha.com |----------------------------------- 617/646-7703 (voice/fax) | Proline BBS: 617/641-3722 I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
cricket@hpcc01.HP.COM (Cricket Liu) (10/02/90)
I've received mail in the past few weeks from two folks with addresses
at APOLLO.COM... I've tried to reply to them both and had mail
bounce..
ROD@APOLLO.COM
Try rod@apollo.hp.com.
HOLBROOK@APOLLO.COM
Try holbrook@apollo.hp.com.
cricket
hostmaster@hp.commishkin@apollo.HP.COM (Nathaniel Mishkin) (10/03/90)
In article <101020008@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com>, tomg@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Thomas J. Gilg) writes: >> I've received mail in the past few weeks from two folks >> with addresses at APOLLO.COM... I've tried to reply to them >> both and had mail bounce.. > >The gateway to Apollo is > > 15.20.88.126 apollo.hp.com > >At least within HP/Apollo, apollo.com doesn't exist [anymore]. It's all really somewhat more subtle than this. First off, the 15.20.88.126 address won't do anyone (outside of HP) any good since this address is not reachable from outside of HP. Second, "apollo.com" does exist, and refers to an address (15.254.24.1) that IS reachable. If you have an incredibly (months and months) old copy of the Internet host table, your entry for "apollo.com" says 129.248.0.1, which is its old address and which doesn't work any more. Third, "apollo.hp.com" has MX records which lead you to some reachable hosts that will forward mail to people at HP/Apollo. If your sendmail that talks to the outside world is old enough to not support MX records (say, like--oops--the Apollo sendmail), then you won't be able to use "apollo.hp.com". Otherwise, "apollo.hp.com" should be the address you use. The spaces of user names under "apollo.com" and "apollo.hp.com" are identical (i.e., "foo@apollo.com" and "foo@apollo.hp.com" are equivalent). -- -- Nat Mishkin Cooperative Object Computing Operation Hewlett-Packard Company mishkin@apollo.hp.com
krowitz@RICHTER.MIT.EDU (David Krowitz) (10/03/90)
Oddly enough, the last time MIT's campus network tried to get an IP number for apollo.hp.com, it was for a machine which was internal to the HP network and which did not show up when the local name servers tried to get its IP address. Has this been changed recently? By the way, your mail came via "hpcvlx%hp-pcd%sdd.hp.com@ucsd.edu". You have a number of hostnames that are not fully qualified in that address. This is a common problem with this mailing list -- return addresses with forwarding paths that may or may not be usable. -- David Krowitz krowitz@richter.mit.edu (18.83.0.109) krowitz%richter.mit.edu@eddie.mit.edu krowitz%richter.mit.edu@mitvma.bitnet (in order of decreasing preference)
chris@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (Chris Shenton) (10/03/90)
In article <1990Oct2.140857@apollo.HP.COM> mishkin@apollo.HP.COM (Nathaniel Mishkin) writes:
Third, "apollo.hp.com" has
MX records which lead you to some reachable hosts that will forward mail
to people at HP/Apollo. If your sendmail that talks to the outside world
is old enough to not support MX records (say, like--oops--the Apollo
sendmail), then you won't be able to use "apollo.hp.com".
Yeah, there are a lot of hosts I can't talk to from my apollo. How can I
get a sendmail that *does* speak MX records?
TIA!
--
____________________________________________________________________________
INET: chris@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.155) NASA/GSFC: Code 735
UUCP: ...!uunet!asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov!chris Greenbelt, MD 20771
SPAN: PITCH::CHRIS Fax: 301-286-9214 Phone: 301-286-6093cricket@hpcc01.HP.COM (Cricket Liu) (10/04/90)
Oddly enough, the last time MIT's campus network tried to get an IP
number for apollo.hp.com, it was for a machine which was internal to
the HP network and which did not show up when the local name servers
tried to get its IP address. Has this been changed recently?
I'm sorry, David - I'm not quite sure what you mean. If you mean that the
nameservers for apollo.hp.com weren't reachable on the ARPA Internet, I
know that two of them are (now, anyway).
And yes, the IP address for apollo.hp.com isn't reachable outside the HP
Internet, but the MX list for apollo.hp.com includes two hosts -
amway.ch.apollo.hp.com and hp-sde.sde.hp.com - which are. Any MX-capable
version of sendmail should be able to get to apollo.hp.com without any
problems.
cricket
the hostmaster-at-large in san francisco / hostmaster@hp.comwjw@eba.eb.ele.tue.nl (Willem Jan Withagen) (10/04/90)
In article <CHRIS.90Oct3100351@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> chris@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (Chris Shenton) writes: >In article <1990Oct2.140857@apollo.HP.COM> mishkin@apollo.HP.COM (Nathaniel Mishkin) writes: > > Third, "apollo.hp.com" has > MX records which lead you to some reachable hosts that will forward mail > to people at HP/Apollo. If your sendmail that talks to the outside world > is old enough to not support MX records (say, like--oops--the Apollo > sendmail), then you won't be able to use "apollo.hp.com". > >Yeah, there are a lot of hosts I can't talk to from my apollo. How can I >get a sendmail that *does* speak MX records? I've got a sendmail which does check with the name-server. It was compiled by some one here at our faculty. It comes without guarantees. I'll wbak the file, compress it, and put it on our anon-FTP ftp.eb.ele.tue.nl (131.155.2.25) /pub/apollo/sendmail.Z Like I said: You can use it, but there's no service with the deal! Ciao Willem Jan Withagen. Eindhoven University of Technology DomainName: wjw@eb.ele.tue.nl Digital Systems Group, Room EH 10.10 BITNET: ELEBWJ@HEITUE5.BITNET P.O. 513 Tel: +31-40-473401 5600 MB Eindhoven The Netherlands
hanche@imf.unit.no (Harald Hanche-Olsen) (10/04/90)
In article <ianh.655080894@morgana> ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au (Ian Hoyle) writes:
Does the version of sendmail shipping with sr10.3 (which we **hope** to be
getting at long last :-) correctly support the use of named, MX records and
other related goodies ??? What version is it .... 5.61, or more likely as
Nat pointed out, something considerably earlier?? (it would be too
much to expect it to be the recently released 5.64)
hufsa 64 % /com/bldt
**** Node 1BAA4 **** "//hufsa"
Domain/OS kernel(10), revision 10.3, beta3 June 6, 1990 1:59:14 pm
===========
hufsa 65 % /usr/lib/sendmail -bs
220 hufsa Sendmail 5.52 (85)/imf-C-1.4 ready at Thu, 4 Oct 90 15:09:19 +0100
========
quit
221 hufsa closing connection
I am very much afraid this answers your question. The good news is
that "porting" 5.61 to the Apollo is almost no work at all (hence one
wonders why HPollo did not bother); and with luck, 5.64 may be just as
easy.
- Harald Hanche-Olsen <hanche@imf.unit.no>
Division of Mathematical Sciences
The Norwegian Institute of Technology
N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAYthompson@PAN.SSEC.HONEYWELL.COM (John Thompson) (10/04/90)
> >to people at HP/Apollo. If your sendmail that talks to the outside world > >is old enough to not support MX records (say, like--oops--the Apollo > >sendmail), then you won't be able to use "apollo.hp.com". > Does the version of sendmail shipping with sr10.3 (which we **hope** to be > getting at long last :-) correctly support the use of named, MX records and > other related goodies ??? What version is it .... 5.61, or more likely as > Nat pointed out, something considerably earlier?? (it would be too > much to expect it to be the recently released 5.64) The pre-release (bost-beta) 10.3 (10.03.a) that came with our Mentor workstations responds as follows -- $ //montreal/usr/lib/sendmail -bt -d99 Version 5.52 (84) ADDRESS TEST MODE Enter <ruleset> <address> > *** EOF *** $ ts //montreal/usr/lib/sendmail Ver Name Time Stamp File Name -------------------------------------------------------------- c 1 version 1989/09/28 9:15:56 CDT (Thu) //montreal/usr/lib/sendmail Doesn't look too modern to my eye. John Thompson (jt) Honeywell, SSEC Plymouth, MN 55441 thompson@pan.ssec.honeywell.com As ever, my opinions do not necessarily agree with Honeywell's or reality's. (Honeywell's do not necessarily agree with mine or reality's, either)
cricket@hpcc01.HP.COM (Cricket Liu) (10/04/90)
David Krowitz pointed out to me that Apollo ships a version of sendmail which isn't MX-smart. And it makes sense that lotsa folks running Apollo's port of sendmail would be interested in talking to Apollo. For those of you in these circumstances, either user@apollo.com or user%apollo.hp.com@amway.ch.apollo.hp.com should work from non-MX-smart hosts. cricket hostmaster@hp.com
ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au (Ian Hoyle) (10/05/90)
mishkin@apollo.HP.COM (Nathaniel Mishkin) writes: >to people at HP/Apollo. If your sendmail that talks to the outside world >is old enough to not support MX records (say, like--oops--the Apollo >sendmail), then you won't be able to use "apollo.hp.com". Does the version of sendmail shipping with sr10.3 (which we **hope** to be getting at long last :-) correctly support the use of named, MX records and other related goodies ??? What version is it .... 5.61, or more likely as Nat pointed out, something considerably earlier?? (it would be too much to expect it to be the recently released 5.64) Has anyone out there ported 5.64? ian -- Ian Hoyle /\/\ Image Processing & Data Analysis Group / / /\ BHP Melbourne Research Laboratories / / / \ 245 Wellington Rd, Mulgrave, 3170 / / / /\ \ AUSTRALIA \ \/ / / / \ / / / Phone : +61-3-560-7066 \/\/\/ FAX : +61-3-561-6709 E-mail : ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au
paul@CAEN.ENGIN.UMICH.EDU (Paul Killey) (10/05/90)
compiling 5.61 sendmail on apollos is one thing, but getting functionality people assume therein is another. E.g. What if this sequence fails? pw = getpwuid(geteuid()); Well, if it fails in one place, all your outbound mail is from postmaster, and not who really sent it. If it fails elsewhere you reference a null pointer and blow up. Vanilla sendmail does not accomodate transient registry failures. You can bounce mail with "No such user" when the error is really a temporary failure that should return a 421 code, or an OK with a retry from the queue later. In addition to rgy quirks, there is the (different from Unix) apollo notion of file concurrency control. Do you have a high tolerance for "Unknown error mailer error #1" messages when /bin/mail exits with a status of 1? Or "text file busy" or whatever when your /usr/spool/mail file is being accessed simultaneously from 2 different nodes? If you usually have your alias files automatically updated (have OD in your .cf file), or just have the bad luck to have sendmail try an alias lookup while another one is doing a dbminit() on another node, you lose because dbminit() opens the files for write, even if you end up only needing to read them. Etc.
nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) (10/05/90)
In article <4d34a015e.000f088@caen.engin.umich.edu> paul@CAEN.ENGIN.UMICH.EDU (Paul Killey) writes: > >compiling 5.61 sendmail on apollos is one thing, but getting >functionality people assume therein is another. > >E.g. > >What if this sequence fails? > pw = getpwuid(geteuid()); That probably explains why every so often all mail starts going out with a sender apparently picked randomly from the password file. >In addition to rgy quirks, there is the (different from Unix) apollo >notion of file concurrency control. Do you have a high tolerance for >"Unknown error mailer error #1" messages when /bin/mail exits with a You should be so lucky. If there's an rgyd error you are likely to get a failure in /bin/mail too, and that particular failure doesn't set any error codes. /bin/mail will do an exit(0) and the mail will get thrown away. By all means pick up a /bin/mail replacement somewhere and make sure it doesn't have that bug. Apollo has no plans to fix it. -kee -- Alphalpha Software, Inc. | motif-request@alphalpha.com nazgul@alphalpha.com |----------------------------------- 617/646-7703 (voice/fax) | Proline BBS: 617/641-3722 I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
mike@tuvie (Inst.f.Techn.Informatik) (10/05/90)
In article <1500003@hpcc01.HP.COM> cricket@hpcc01.HP.COM (Cricket Liu) writes: >David Krowitz pointed out to me that Apollo ships a version of sendmail >which isn't MX-smart. And it makes sense that lotsa folks running Apollo's >port of sendmail would be interested in talking to Apollo. For those of >you in these circumstances, either > >user@apollo.com > >or > >user%apollo.hp.com@amway.ch.apollo.hp.com > >should work from non-MX-smart hosts. Thanks for this hint. But this of course is only a temporary hack! The real solution to this problem is for HP/Apollo to port a new sendmail version (preferbaly 5.64) to DomainOS. bye, mike Michael K. Gschwind, Institute for VLSI-Design, Technical University, Vienna mike@vlsivie.at 1-2-3-4 kick the lawsuits out the door mike@vlsivie.uucp 5-6-7-8 innovate don't litigate e182202@awituw01.bitnet 9-A-B-C interfaces should be free Voice: (++43).1.58801 8144 D-E-F-O look and feel has got to go! Fax: (++43).1.569697
rees@pisa.ifs.umich.edu (Jim Rees) (10/05/90)
In article <4d34a015e.000f088@caen.engin.umich.edu>, paul@CAEN.ENGIN.UMICH.EDU (Paul Killey) writes:
compiling 5.61 sendmail on apollos is one thing, but getting
functionality people assume therein is another.
Agreed. I have mine set up so that outbound mail simply gets relayed to
another, "smarter" machine. I am the only user of sendmail on my (logical)
network. Don't ask me about inbound mail, it will disgust you.
At least on large installation of Apollo nodes that I know of just runs
sendmail on a single node, with a daemon that picks outbound messages out of
a big "pre-sendmail" spool directory. Individual nodes don't run sendmail
at all, they just run a simple program that inserts messages into the spool
directory. This clearly doesn't scale well.
Too bad Apollo never did a really good mail system. The Domain architecture
would seem to be ideally suited to some kind of whiz-bang, distributed NCS
based mailer. But writing and maintaining mailers is a black hole of
programmer time (as Paul is no doubt aware!)tomg@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Thomas J. Gilg) (10/09/90)
> And yes, the IP address for apollo.hp.com isn't reachable outside the HP > Internet, but the MX list for apollo.hp.com includes two hosts - > amway.ch.apollo.hp.com and hp-sde.sde.hp.com - which are. Any MX-capable > version of sendmail should be able to get to apollo.hp.com without any > problems. I've been told that HP's official e-mail addressing form is: person@hpsite_and_or_hpdivision.hp.com eg, tomg@cv.hp.com As pointed out, the machine listed may not be visible to the outside world, and I was wrong in posting an address # for apollo.hp.com Its been my experience that the host name(s) formed above aren't always resolvable by my friends outside of HP; I guess they don't understand MX lists, or whatever. In such cases, I don't depend on any "default" HP gateway to resolve things, but instead, I have them use: person%hpsite_and_or_hpdivision.hp.com@a_known_hp_gateway eg, tomg%cv.hp.com@hplabs.hp.com This second e-mail addressing form has yet to fail me or any of my friends. Thomas "I never did/will understand the e-mail magic" Gilg tomg@cv.hp.com