thompson@ELROND.SSEC.HONEYWELL.COM (John Thompson) (11/30/90)
First -- sorry to any people who are on the Mentor list as well as
comp.sys.apollo. I think it's applicable, though.
The December, 1990 _Workstation_ magazine has an article on OSF,
the new RISC boxes, the future of Domain/OS, and other miscellaneous
news sprinkled within. In it (along with the _BAD_ news about OSF only
being on the PA-RISC and 9000/400 nodes (I assume they missed deadline
with the "generous" addition of the DN5500)) they have the original and
new RISC strategies listed.
Without going into the gory details, the original plan had OSF/1
available for both current RISC platforms (DN10000 and 9000/800)
in 1989, Domain/OS ported to the 2nd generation HPPA system in 1990/91,
and HP-UX, OSF, and Domain/OS on the 3rd generation machines (1992/93).
The current plan has several modifications, besides corrections of
timeframe (I don't know about everyone else, but in my opinion, there's
"lies, damn-lies, benchmarks, and release-dates," in that order).
Again, basically, they dropped Domain/OS from the 2nd generation HPPA
======= ========= ==== === === ==========
machine, dropped OSF from the DN10000 (this is one of the things they
reversed, I think?), changed a "definite" recompile-and-run from the
DN10000 -> 3rd generation RISC into a "maybe" recompile-and-run, and
dropped Domain/OS from the 3rd generation RISC platform.
======= ========= ==== === === ==========
Now, I like to think that I'm a reasonable guy. I understand that
hardware depreciates at about 1/2 the speed that it should, since
Corp. policy and reality are not in alignment. I understand that
software is always written to push the capabilities of the most powerful
machine available. I understand that O/S's become obsolete. I
understand that OSF is a wonderful system that will make all my wildest
dreams come true. ;-)
However, I also am responsible for a Mentor Graphics network. I understand
that Mentor Graphics has a large investment in Domain/OS and Apollo in
general. I also understand that Mentor decided to support the Sun
platform with release 8.0 (or sometime after that) of their software,
mainly because of customer demands. I understand that, if HP/Apollo
decides to stay with their decision to drop Domain/OS from new systems,
Mentor may decide to support the Sun first and the HP/Apollo platform
second. I understand that, should this happen, I will have to choose
between accepting delays in software release or throwing out the Apollos
and replacing them with Suns (yuck!)
HP/Apollo (Bill Kelly, s/w mktg mgr for Apollo Sys. Div. specifically),
says that "The reality of it is that OSF will have the functionality of
Domain, so why would you implement Domain again?" I believe that the
previous paragraph answers that. Third party software vendors (and Mentor
is a HUGE one for Apollo) will ask the same basic question, but turn it
around: "Domain has all the functionality that we need; why should we
port our code to OSF?"
I realize that Domain/OS will die <sob>. I don't think that HP/Apollo
should take it out back and shoot it, lest they end up missing, and shoot
themselves instead.
As an afterthought, in the same article, they also say that other
products to "help HP/Apollo users feel at home under OSF/1 will include
Task Broker, NetLS and NCS 2.0." Pardon my asking, but isn't Task Broker
an HP-UX product that was ported to Domain/OS? Seems to me that a product
that uses TCP/IP services to shuffle data around will not make me feel
like I'm on a Domain/OS system (even if it is a fine product).
-- jt --
John Thompson (jt)
Honeywell, SSEC
Plymouth, MN 55441
thompson@pan.ssec.honeywell.com
As ever, my opinions do not necessarily agree with Honeywell's or reality's.
(Honeywell's do not necessarily agree with mine or reality's, either)asherman@dino.cpe.ulowell.edu (Aaron Sherman) (12/02/90)
thompson@ELROND.SSEC.HONEYWELL.COM (John Thompson) writes: > >The December, 1990 _Workstation_ magazine has an article on OSF, >the new RISC boxes, the future of Domain/OS, and other miscellaneous >news sprinkled within. In it (along with the _BAD_ news about OSF only [...] >The current plan has several modifications, besides corrections of >timeframe (I don't know about everyone else, but in my opinion, there's >"lies, damn-lies, benchmarks, and release-dates," in that order). >Again, basically, they dropped Domain/OS from the 2nd generation HPPA > ======= ========= ==== === === ========== >machine, dropped OSF from the DN10000 (this is one of the things they >reversed, I think?), changed a "definite" recompile-and-run from the >DN10000 -> 3rd generation RISC into a "maybe" recompile-and-run, and >dropped Domain/OS from the 3rd generation RISC platform. >======= ========= ==== === === ========== I guess I wasn't just over-reacting. I've had reports from inside HP/Apollo (many, not just one or two) that LOTS of the people in the upper-portions of HP would be VERY pleased if they could just bury Domain/OS and the rest of Apollo. I just don't know why they're being so BLIND! HP has the best chance that they've ever had, or are likely to get again, to change the computing world. All they have to do is make Domain/OS's environments reasonable, and they could be #1 in the workstation marketplace. Apollo always had the chance, but their marketing department was too poor to actually get the users interested. Now we have HP who's management just doesn't see what they've got. Which is worse, I wonder: incompitent marketing or ignorant management. At least Apollo kept the customers that they got... >However, I also am responsible for a Mentor Graphics network. I understand >that Mentor Graphics has a large investment in Domain/OS and Apollo in >general. I also understand that Mentor decided to support the Sun >platform with release 8.0 (or sometime after that) of their software, >mainly because of customer demands. I understand that, if HP/Apollo >decides to stay with their decision to drop Domain/OS from new systems, >Mentor may decide to support the Sun first and the HP/Apollo platform >second. I understand that, should this happen, I will have to choose >between accepting delays in software release or throwing out the Apollos >and replacing them with Suns (yuck!) Go for the Suns. HP will kill Apollo, and in the process, I think that they will harm LOTS of Apollo users. >HP/Apollo (Bill Kelly, s/w mktg mgr for Apollo Sys. Div. specifically), >says that "The reality of it is that OSF will have the functionality of >Domain, so why would you implement Domain again?" Silly response. Why would you throw out Domain/OS in favor of OSF? How easy is it to link in new device drivers to a running kernal? How do you switch between SysV/BSD and aegis? >I realize that Domain/OS will die <sob>. I don't think that HP/Apollo >should take it out back and shoot it, lest they end up missing, and shoot >themselves instead. Agreed. >As an afterthought, in the same article, they also say that other >products to "help HP/Apollo users feel at home under OSF/1 will include >Task Broker, NetLS and NCS 2.0." Pardon my asking, but isn't Task Broker >an HP-UX product that was ported to Domain/OS? Seems to me that a product >that uses TCP/IP services to shuffle data around will not make me feel >like I'm on a Domain/OS system (even if it is a fine product). > NetLS is the registry? I'm not sure how much they will change NCS for 2.0, but I think that we need to start asking ourselves why we're using machines that are going to be downgraded to a brand new OS in 1-2 years. In my opinion it's time to look at your machine (load 10.3 first) and see what you think. If you like it enough to stick with it after it's unsupported, then more power to you, just don't upgrade again. Otherwise, go to Sun or DEC. Sun and DEC may have a lot of flaws, and I don't like the directions that their OS's are heading either, but at least their not throwing out working OS's. -AJS Of course these opinions are mine, and no one else's, and exept where mentioned, my ideas have only my experience and cynicism to support them. -- | asherman@dino.cpe.ulowell.edu or asherman%cpe@swan.ulowell.edu or | | {backbone}!ulowell!ul-cpe!asherman | | "Live, and be prosperous." -Romeo | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------