rtdickerson@lescsse.uucp (russel dickerson) (03/15/91)
We just dropped the PSK w/ X11r4 on our Apollo and, when running the X server supplied, xterm seems not to understand the keyboard. It gives completly wrong characters back when you type. We didnt have this problem with the strait X11r4 mit build. Has anyone had this happen as well? -- Russell Dickerson Internet: dickerson@vf.jsc.nasa.gov Lockheed (LESC), A22 UUCP: lobster!lescsse!rtdickerson SSE System Project X Windows & Motif on Apollo/PC/Mac Space Station Freedom Phone +1 713 283 5193
craig@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Craig Durland) (03/19/91)
In-Reply-To: article <rtdickerson.669045045@node_25d97> of Fri, 15 Mar 1991 13:50:45 GMT > We just dropped the PSK w/ X11r4 on our Apollo and, when running the X > server supplied, xterm seems not to understand the keyboard. It gives > completly wrong characters back when you type. > We didnt have this problem with the strait X11r4 mit build. Has anyone > had this happen as well? What keyboard do you have? The PSK server only (currently) supports the North American keyboard (the one with Alt keys on either side of the space bar). An older or multinational keyboard would generate the "wrong" keycodes. You should see a message like "Could not find keymap - using default" in this case. If you don't see that message (displayed in the pad that started the server), it could be that you have a xmodmap that is remapping the keyboard. Craig Durland (503) 750-3354 Hewlett-Packard, 1000 NE Circle, Corvallis, OR 97330 craig@cv.hp.com
hanche@imf.unit.no (Harald Hanche-Olsen) (03/19/91)
In article <101020030@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com> craig@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Craig Durland) writes: In-Reply-To: article <rtdickerson.669045045@node_25d97> of Fri, 15 Mar 1991 13:50:45 GMT > We just dropped the PSK w/ X11r4 on our Apollo and, when running the X > server supplied, xterm seems not to understand the keyboard. It gives > completly wrong characters back when you type. What keyboard do you have? The PSK server only (currently) supports the North American keyboard (the one with Alt keys on either side of the space bar). Aaargh!! So THAT explains why our local HP contacts deny even the EXISTENCE of the PSK server!? Why did support for other keyboards have to be dropped? It's in the MIT server, right? Now if I could only get the latter to work reliably ... But when I asked here about it, the response I got was "why don't you use the PSK server?" Seemed like a good idea, but now I guess it's back to trying to understand why the MIT server is having problems. - Harald Hanche-Olsen <hanche@imf.unit.no> Division of Mathematical Sciences The Norwegian Institute of Technology N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAY
rees@pisa.citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees) (03/20/91)
In article <101020030@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com>, craig@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Craig Durland) writes: > We just dropped the PSK w/ X11r4 on our Apollo and, when running the X > server supplied, xterm seems not to understand the keyboard. It gives > completly wrong characters back when you type. What keyboard do you have? The PSK server only (currently) supports the North American keyboard (the one with Alt keys on either side of the space bar). Now I'm really confused. We've got the psk here. I don't use it myself (I like share mode) but the people who do assure me that it works fine with the kbd 3. I'll go upstairs and ask the expert.
rand@HWCAE.CFSAT.HONEYWELL.COM (03/21/91)
>>>>> Craig Durland <craig@cv.hp.com> at 18-Mar-91 in [Re: Xterm Keymaps w/ the PSK] writes: > What keyboard do you have? The PSK server only (currently) supports the > North American keyboard (the one with Alt keys on either side of the > space bar). An older or multinational keyboard would generate the > "wrong" keycodes. You should see a message like "Could not find keymap > - using default" in this case. If you don't see that message (displayed > in the pad that started the server), it could be that you have a xmodmap > that is remapping the keyboard. Please pardon my ignorance, but does this mean that the older keyboard that was shipped with thousands of nodes is *NOT* supported with X11R4? I'm talking about the keyboard that is identical to the new ones except for: no ALT keys and is a little flatter and has better tactile feedback (Sorry, couldn't resist) We have about 60 nodes with the older keyboard. They have all the keys the new one has with the exception of the alt keys. Can these nodes run X11 R4? Help! -- Douglas Keenan Rand Honeywell -- Air Transport Systems Division Phone: +1 602 436 2814 US Snail: P.O. Box 21111 Phoenix AZ 85036 Internet: @cim-vax.honeywell.com:rand@hwcae.cfsat.honeywell.com -or- rand@ssdc.honeywell.com UUCP: ...!uunet!asuvax!apciphx!hwcae!rand
craig@HPCVLX.CV.HP.COM (Craig Durland) (03/26/91)
> Please pardon my ignorance, but does this mean that the older keyboard > that was shipped with thousands of nodes is *NOT* supported with X11R4? > I'm talking about the keyboard that is identical to the new ones except > for: > no ALT keys > and is a little flatter > and has better tactile feedback (Sorry, couldn't resist) Well, I think the "offical" position is we don't support it. However, I may be mistaken about which keyboard it really is. The keyboard you have seems to behave that same as the North American and works fine (as far as my limited testing went). > We have about 60 nodes with the older keyboard. They have all the keys > the new one has with the exception of the alt keys. Can these nodes run > X11 R4? Help! Don't worry, it works. If you find a problem with it, let me know. We had no idea that that many of those keyboards where out there and did not test it. When we did the R4 Apollo server, we had very little experience with Apollo machines. Craig Durland (503) 750-3354 Hewlett-Packard, 1000 NE Circle, Corvallis, OR 97330 craig@cv.hp.com
system@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (System Admin (Mike Peterson)) (03/26/91)
In article <9103251755.AA29093@hpcvlx.HP.COM> craig@HPCVLX.CV.HP.COM (Craig Durland) writes: >> We have about 60 nodes with the older keyboard. They have all the keys >> the new one has with the exception of the alt keys. Can these nodes run >> X11 R4? Help! > >Don't worry, it works. If you find a problem with it, let me know. We >had no idea that that many of those keyboards where out there and did ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >not test it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Unbelievable !!! I would guess that 80-90% of the Apollo nodes have the "older" keyboard (only our DN2500, bought in 1990, has the "new" keyboard, not even our DN10000 has it). I understand from an HP SE that if an "old" keyboard "breaks" that the new one (with ALT keys) is used in its place for hardware maintenance contracts on all node types (broken keyboards are not repaired any more, just dropped in the dumpster). Whether the ALT keys actually work on all node types remains to be seen though - we have not tried this (yet), but we might have a "rash" of broken keyboards if users get sufficiently upset about the lack of ALT keys on their keyboards (with uwm, no ALT is a real pain, but with mwm it doesn't make too much difference in my experience). -- Mike Peterson, System Administrator, U/Toronto Department of Chemistry E-mail: system@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca Tel: (416) 978-7094 Fax: (416) 978-8775
rees@pisa.citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees) (03/27/91)
In article <9103251755.AA29093@hpcvlx.HP.COM>, craig@HPCVLX.CV.HP.COM (Craig Durland) writes: > Please pardon my ignorance, but does this mean that the older keyboard > that was shipped with thousands of nodes is *NOT* supported with X11R4? Well, I think the "offical" position is we don't support it. However, I may be mistaken about which keyboard it really is. Don't worry, it works. If you find a problem with it, let me know. We had no idea that that many of those keyboards where out there and did not test it. There are four keyboards in use on Apollo nodes. Kbd 1 is big and klunky. It was shipped with early dishwasher nodes (dn100, dn400, etc). You never see these any more. Kbd 2 is low-profile, and has black function keys F1-F8. It was shipped with the dn300. These are still in use but rare. Kbd 3 is low-profile, and has grey function keys F0-F9. It was shipped with the Otter series (dn3000, dn3500, etc). This is the keyboard that apparently doesn't work sometimes with the r4 server. This keyboard is in use on over 90% of all Apollo nodes today, hence the concern. What exactly is the story? Under what circumstances does this keyboard work? The new HP keyboard has two ALT keys on either side of the space bar. This keyboard works fine with the r4 server, but since hardly anyone uses this keyboard yet outside of HP, it doesn't do us much good. I hate this keyboard because it looks like something you would find connected to an IBM machine running TSO.
nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) (03/27/91)
In article <50990fcc.1bc5b@pisa.citi.umich.edu> rees@citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees) writes: >The new HP keyboard has two ALT keys on either side of the space bar. This >keyboard works fine with the r4 server, but since hardly anyone uses this >keyboard yet outside of HP, it doesn't do us much good. I hate this Actually I don't think too many people at HP have them either. We've got some evaluation copies of our software there and we none of the user's can use the Alt accelerators unless they remap one of their keys to be an Alt key. -- Alfalfa Software, Inc. | Poste: The EMail for Unix nazgul@alfalfa.com | Send Anything... Anywhere 617/646-7703 (voice/fax) | info@alfalfa.com I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
krowitz@RICHTER.MIT.EDU (David Krowitz) (03/29/91)
It depends on whether you are talking about HP Chelmsford (Apollo) which has almost entirely KBD 3 keyboards on their DN35xx/45xx and DK10K, or HP Corvalis (real HP) which is where the X Windows development was sent after the Chelmsford X Windows group was disbanded. Ever wonder why the X11 R4 server is not share mode like the R3 server? After all, it *is* a real value-added feature to be able to run both native graphics and X graphics on the same machine -- it allows for *both* standards *and* inovation on the same box. I'll give you a hint. The people who did the R3 server mostly don't work for HP/Apollo anymore. Right, Kee? ;-) == Dave