dennis@nosc.mil (Dennis Cottel) (03/30/91)
I've been wanting an excuse to get this off my chest... krowitz@RICHTER.MIT.EDU (David Krowitz) writes: > I explain that the latest HP/Apollo hardware will not run Domain/OS (not > even SR11), only HP-UX and OSF so that buying new Apollo gear will not help the > situation. So HP announced their hot new machines and users came around to ask about them -- and I said, "You can't use it." The word "incredulous" pretty much describes my response to HP's cutting off the old Apollo customers this way. We early Apollo users were willing to live and grow with Apollo instead of buying some other Unix box because Apollo was doing the long-range, advanced networking technology right. And we knew it was just a matter of time until we could have it all. So who gets the spiffy new RISC technology first? The customers that all along have been most interested in the best technology available? Nope. Well, then, when *can* we have it? Only when we're willing to give up on Domain/OS for a pig in poke. So until we switch to OSF in a few years when it's stable and usable, HP won't be selling us any of their RISC machines. If there are still Apollo users then. Not smart. Dennis Cottel, dennis@NOSC.MIL, (619) 553-1645 Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego, CA 92152
thompson@PAN.SSEC.HONEYWELL.COM (John Thompson) (03/30/91)
> So HP announced their hot new machines and users came around to ask > about them -- and I said, "You can't use it." The word "incredulous" > pretty much describes my response to HP's cutting off the old Apollo > customers this way. > ...when *can* we have it? Only when we're willing to give up on Domain/OS > for a pig in poke. > > So until we switch to OSF in a few years when it's stable and usable, HP > won't be selling us any of their RISC machines. If there are still > Apollo users then. > > Not smart. We were asked when we would consider buying the new snake boxes, and what HP could do to make us want them. The answer, of course, is "make them run Domain/OS." I want the snake boxes. I want so much power and spped that I get dizzy (DSEE?). However, I want a system that works with my current equipment, and my current software. For us, that means Domain/OS. I am sick to death of the "everybody else has only one leg, so we'll cut ours off too" attitude. (Yes, I know that if HP didn't, everybody would yell that they weren't standard -- witness the periodic pure-Unix complaints.) Maybe -- MAYBE -- if we get Domain/DCE (I've heard that will be at 10.4, or at 11.0), _AND_ the OSF on the snakes is good, stable, etc (or at least works with Domain/DCE), I will see about buying some snakes. However, even if/when the hardware and O/S is there, I have to worry about software. We have 3 major types of software -- Mentor Graphics, Cadence, and in-house tools. + Mentor will be supporting the snakes in HP-UX (and OSF?) "RealSoonNow". However, the tools they port will be release 8.0 (GodOnlyKnowsWhen), and they had _better_ port to Domain first. I don't expect the CAE tools until 3rd or 4th quarter. + Cadence will support the snakes sometime. The rumbling we heard was Q3. + Our in-house tools often call Mentor or Cadence programs. Where they don't, they use Domain-specific features such as mailbox calls. We certainly can't afford the time or money to translate everything we do over to a brain-dead "standard". Here's what I hear from HP/Apollo -- those of you from HP, _please_ listen. I would like to stay with you. I _love_ the Apollo O/S. We have a large commitment to HP/Apollo systems, in terms of dollars, time, devotion, etc. But -- I hear the OSF will be neat, whizbang, and everything I could possibly imagine. However, it won't have file-typing (maybe later), so we can kiss the mbx calls goodbye. It won't have Apollo PADs, so I guess we can kiss the input transcript goodbye too. (Typing in an Xterm is like typeing at a terminal. I can't stand having to backspace over 20 good chars to correct 1 bad one). It won't have the editing capability provided by the DM unless somebody writes an X mangler that does it -- fat chance. It won't have the completely transparent network that Domain/OS provides; if you need to boot the node first, it ain't transparent. What will it have? Well, let's see. It will have a distributed registry (good). It will have AFS, which is great if you haven't had anything better than NFS. It will be "standard", so we can pick from the various flavors of Vanilla that people offer. It might get file-typing later, so that after giving it up for a few years, we may get it back. It will have task broker (I wouldn't mention this, except that some HP bigwig said that this would make Domain people feel more at home. Task broker is an HP-UX program that was ported to Domain). I want to feel good about OSF and the future of Apollos at HP. I just have a hard time with it, 'cause every time I turn around, I get another piece of Domain taken away. -- jt -- John Thompson Honeywell, SSEC Plymouth, MN 55441 thompson@pan.ssec.honeywell.com Me? Represent Honeywell? You've GOT to be kidding!!!