chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen) (05/11/91)
Following are *paraphrased* excerpts from the paper titled "Domain/OS and HP OSF/1: Interoperability and Operating System Evolution", dated Feb 14, 1991. It is a 33 pages paper with lots of valuable information along with marketing hypes. I believe HP made a similar presentation on the ADUS SysAdmin Conference. Disclaimer: I select the portion that I think relavant to the readers of the newsgroups, omission is purely to save my time to type. I claim full responsibility for typos, and mis-representation of information from the paper due to paraphrase (English is not my native language). I suggest anyone who is seriously interested in the information should obtain a copy of the paper directly from HP/Apollo. I will not attemp to answer any question regarding HP's plan. I hope HP people can provide us more informal information. Finally, I speak for myself and my employer is not even a member of OSF (I think Moto is a member of UI). My personal comments are enclosed by {}. Basically HPollo is planning a two phases migration: First phase is SR10.4 along with OSF/1 1.a on the Series 700, the second phase is SR10.x along with OSF/1 1.b on all 68K platforms. 1991 1992 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Domain/OS Releases schedule: PSK: SR10.4 SR10.x X11R4 Standards DCE Motif 1.1 Full NFS CDROM HP VUE 2.0 DAT Additional Disks JAWS DN10K X/Motif clients HP OSF/1 Releases schedule: OSF/1 1.a OSF/1 1.b Full features for Add Support for: End Users and VABS Series 700 Series 400 (2D) 2D & 3D DN with 040 (2D) CASE Tools DCE Many Domain Features Multi-byte chars Full NFS More details about the four releases (10.4, 10.x, and OSF/1 1.a, 1.b): SR10.4: Standards: 10.4 will be fully compliant with XPG3, POSIX, OSF OSC AES (OSF Operating System Component Application Environment Specification), FIPS, and SVID. Full NFS: In addition to current NFS support, Yellow Pages, Lock Manager, Auto-mounter, PC-NFS, and user interfaces like XDR, Secure RPC, REX, RPC GEN, and NFS API will be added. User Interfaces: Full X11R4 release on 68K platforms, and X11R4 clients on PRISM (sans server). HP VUE 2.0 will be available. { I think HP is pushing HP VUE as *the* window manager which is okay to me privided the DM Editor promised (see below) is delivered.} Hardware Enhancements: the Magneto-Optical Disk Autochanger (JAWS) will be supported on the Series 400 systems. Both the 400 MB SCSI and 1.4 GB SCSI disk will be supported by Domain/OS at or about the same time as similar support under HP-UX. SR10.x {SR10.5 ?}: DCE will be implemented for Domain/OS.DCE will provide a common registry system for user identification and validation, a single common file system with single protection scheme (ACLS), and a single distributed computing mechanmism (2.0) within a network of Domain/OS and OSF/1 systems. OSF/1 1.a: Platforms: Only on Series 700. Graphics: X11R4, 2D and 3D Starbase, PHIGS+ and GKS. CASE Tools: DDE and DPAK will be available. HP LINT and GPR-to-X emulator tools will aid Domain/OS users in changing their software to use standards-based interfaces. The DCE toolkit will allow users to develop powerful distributed applications for HP OSF/1. Networking: OSF/1 1.a based system will tie into existing network with TCP/IP and NFS. Both the Apollo Token Ring and Ethernet physical links will be supported. { No rewiring is required for existing ATR network, confirmed in ADUS SysAdmin Conf. } System Administration: Three types of technique for user account administration will be provided the manual editing of /etc/passwd files, NFS Yellow Pages, or Domain/OS registry clients. These techniques do not work in combination. Rather, one of three is chosen and used exclusively. The server for the Domain/OS registry client must reside on a Domain/OS workstation on the network. OmniBacck will be available. HP OSF/1 software will be distributed on CD ROM only. OSF/1 1.b: Platforms: All 040 based workstations. Graphics: X11R4 on all 2D graphics controllers on the Series 400 (MVRX, CVRX, and CRX). The DN5500 will support X11R4 on the M, E, F options and DVS controllers. Later in 1992, on the Series 400 only, will be 2D and 3D Starbase, HP PHIGS, and GKS. Networking: DCE will provide many features of Domain networking, including a global filesystem, a global login facility, extended ACLs, and file lock. System Administration: Networks of Domain/OS, HP-UX, and HP OSF/1 can be all be administrated in one simple consistent way with features provided by DCE. Interationalization: Multi-byte character sets will be supported in the XPG/4 style. Interoperability in two phases. Phase 1 (Q4 1991): Networking - Domain/NFS Full support of NFS with 2 to 4 times faster speed. System Administration Common tools available on both Domain/OS SR10.4 and OSF/1 1.a: OminBack Net LS Passwd Etc. CDROM NFS: Yellow Pages and Automounter User Environment X11R4, Motif 1.1 and HP VUE2.0 on both SR10.4 and OSF/1 1.a. DCE Tool Set Available on Series 700 for software developers. CASE Tools - DSEE, DDE, DPAK DSEE can be used on Domain/OS workstations to build binaries targeting OSF/1. Native DSEE on OSF/1 will be provided in the future (second half of 1992). DSEE 4.0 will have Motif interface. DDE and DPAK will be available in HP OSF/1 1.a. A Lint toll with user selectable database is planned to assist customers in transitioning their applications. For example, the Lint tool will check Domain/OS input sources for Aegis calls, then refer to the appropriate database for the suggested XPG3 call. {I wonder what Unix call it will refer for mbx_$ and ec2_$ calls} The following is the list of the non-graphic database planned (the graphic database will be described in the next section): Aegis to XPG3 Berkeley to XPG3 Sys V to XPG3 SOCKETS to Streams Remaining OS Calls to Standards K & R C to ANSI C Graphics - 2D and 3D For the Domain user, the OSF/1 2D and 3D graphics capabilities, released in fourth quarter of 1991, require that applications to be written in X, PHIGS+, or Starbase. The following capabilities are offered to help convert existing graphics: running natively: o Lint Tool Database for Graphics o GPR to X emulation program o Domain X to OSF/1 X recompile o Domain PHIGS to HP PHIGS recompile The Lint Tool will be enchanced with databases to convert graphic calls. Specifically: GPR to X GMR to PHIGS GPR to Starbase GMR to Starbase With the GPR to X emulation program simple GPR output calls are translated into X calls. No GPR input is supported. There is a significant penalty for using this program, but simple programs using GPR output primitives can be emulated. Sources for this program will be distributed. User Interface - Cut and Paste Visual Editor An OSF/1-based editor along with OSF/Motif modifications (startup files and macros) that provides a *DM look and feel* {in bold letter originally} are {sic} planned. The features planned for this editor include: o Third mouse key that opens a file for reading/editing. o Key mapped to DM functions, where possible. o Cut and paste between windows, files, and into the editor. o A WYSIWYG editor that mimics the DM editor, as much as possible. o Appropriate startup files and macros that implement this functionality. Phase 2 (Q2 1992): DCE vs. Domain File System While the global name space is preserved in the DCE, there is a fundamental change in the model that needs to be understood. Traditional Domain networks exist under a peer-to-peer model, where every machine is both a client and a server. DCE File System (DCE/DFS) networks operate under a client-server model where there is a small set of designated servers that make their file systems accessable to all, and a large number of clients that typically use their local disk space for caching remote files from the server. Note that under DCE/DFS clients can make their file systems apparent to other systems within the cell, where a cell is defined as a signle administrative entity. With Domain DCE, the best file access efficiencies are handled by DCE. Decisions concerning locating files on servers or on the user's local disk are made by DCE, base on file usage. This entire operation is transparent to the user and automatically implemented within DCE. Domain networking requires the user and system administrator to make these decisions, and to reevaluate these decisions if file usage changes. Client-to-server ratios need to be calculated based on the particular applications environment for best performance. The following is the DCE Domain/OS and OSF/1 support matrix. OSF Domain/OS Description DCE DCE AFS 4.0 X X The distributed file system for OSF/1 provding uniform name space, file locations transparency, and high availability Episode Physical File System X + The physical file system for OSF/1 Naming (including X.500)X X OSF's X/Open compliant naming model throughout the distributed environment Time X X The distributed time reference for scheduling activities and determing event sequencing and duration Threads X X A facility that supports concurrent programing Security X X Services that are well integrated within the fundamental OSF distributed services and data-sharing components RPC X X Permits individual procedures in an application to run on a computer somewhere else in the network PC-NFS X * Gives minicomputers, mainframes and PC users the ability to share files, peripherals, and applications in a distributed environment Diskless X # Accomodates diskless workstations and provideds well defined, general- purpose protocols for diskless support LM/X X @ HP's PC LAN Manager + Domain/OS has its own physical file system * Domain/PC-NFS is planned with the enchanced NFS product # Domain/OS supports its own diskless capability @ Domain/OS will not support LM/X + and # are due to continue support of Domain-to-Domain services. The Domain/PC Interconnect product offers many of the same features as LM/X. A Domain/OS unique file format, i.e. typed files, which is used extensively in DSEE is not accessible through DCE. However, Domain DSEE Version 4.0 can be used to manage OSF/1 binaries and source files. HP is claiming their own OSF developements use Domain DSEE to manage the binaries {at Chemsford or at Ft. Collins?} OSF/1 nodes wil not operate as Domain network protocol routers, and thus access from Domain/OS nodes to Domain/OS nodes through an OSF/DCE or HP OSF/1 nodes using the Domain network protocols is not possible. Routers to handle Domain network protocols are available from HP and cisco. SR9.7 and SR10.[0-3] nodes will not interoperate with OSF/DCE or HP OSF/1 nodes, except through the Domain/NFS product. However, SR10.4 and greater nodes will interoperate with DCE. Other Networking To support wide area DCE and IBM communications the following networking services are planned for 1992 delivery: o X.25 o ISO/OSI o SNA 3270/3770 Commonly Used Domainisms The following features of Domain/OS represent some of those that are highly valued by Domain users. Along with each Domain/OS features is an explanation of the identical or similar feature provided by HP OSF/1 or DCE. o Network wide file system: The AFS provides a single network wide file system, very similar to that of Domain/OS. But where the Domain/OS file system is only available in local area networks, the AFS offers a network wide file system that works over wide area networks as well. o Concurrency control: The AFS provides similar control to Domain/OS. o Global location broker: DCE includes NCS which includes GLB. o Global login: The Passwd ETC. part of the DCE offers identical capability to the Domain/OS registry. o Cut/paste visual editor: There are a number of X-based visual editors currently under consideration for inclusion within the HP OSF/1 operating system. All of them offer similar features to those found in the DM editor in the Domain/OS, including cut and paste capability. These X-based editors will be enchanced to be more like the DM editor. o DM infinite undo: Although mwm offers undo capability, it does not keep an infinite history. The infinite undo capability could be added to mwm at a later date. o CRP: In a "pure" UNIX environment, remote login and remote execution are possible with the standard TCP/IP utilities of rlogin and rsh. o Kep mapping: With mwm there are startup files to define key mapping. o Input/output pads: The X window system and mwm do not currently support the concept of pads backed by data files on disk. The windows managed by the mwm are backed by buffers in memory and have a limited size (that is configured by user startup files). A window manager that uses files on disk to back up windows could be developed at a later data. { That is not what we want, we'd like the stacking behavior of (input) pad } o Popular Domain commands: There are a few Domain commands that are very powerful and familar to the Domain users. As an aid to migration, many of these services could be provided on OSF as portable user-space servers with little extra effort. This is a matter for further investigation. {like lcnode? or /bin/ps //node?} o Domain mailboxes: Codes that uses mailboxes will have the choice of using NCS RPC or Socket calls in their OSF/1 implementation.
nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) (05/13/91)
In article <517ba29f.3593b@digital.sps.mot.com> chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen) writes: >OSF/1 1.b: >Platforms: > All 040 based workstations. Sigh. >User Interface - Cut and Paste Visual Editor > An OSF/1-based editor along with OSF/Motif modifications (startup files > and macros) that provides a *DM look and feel* {in bold letter > originally} are {sic} planned. The features planned for this editor > include: I am dubious. I'd dearly like to see the spec for this editor. I've long since stopped using the DM, but if I were to use it the main things I'd want are complete keyboard control of the interface and full customization. I think the only reasonable way to get that in this time frame is to start with an existing editor. > both a client and a server. DCE File System (DCE/DFS) networks operate > under a client-server model where there is a small set of designated > servers that make their file systems accessable to all, and a large > number of clients that typically use their local disk space for caching Unfortunately that model doesn't work well for low-budget, small networks. Or for easy system administration. > Version 4.0 can be used to manage OSF/1 binaries and source files. HP is > claiming their own OSF developements use Domain DSEE to manage the > binaries {at Chemsford or at Ft. Collins?} Chelmsford I believe. > o Network wide file system: The AFS provides a single network wide file > system, very similar to that of Domain/OS. But where the Domain/OS Not according to what was said above :-). > o Cut/paste visual editor: There are a number of X-based visual editors > currently under consideration for inclusion within the HP OSF/1 > operating system. All of them offer similar features to those found > in the DM editor in the Domain/OS, including cut and paste > capability. These X-based editors will be enchanced to be more like > the DM editor. HP seems to be under the misconception that the main feature of the DM is that it does cut and paste. > o DM infinite undo: Although mwm offers undo capability, it does not > keep an infinite history. The infinite undo capability could be added > to mwm at a later date. "mwm" doesn't offer infinite anything. It's a window manager, not an editor. I note that there is no talk here about adding DM functionality to mwm. > o Kep mapping: With mwm there are startup files to define key mapping. True, however more mwm functions are necessary before mwm comes close to the DM in terms of window management functions. > o Input/output pads: The X window system and mwm do not currently > support the concept of pads backed by data files on disk. The windows > managed by the mwm are backed by buffers in memory and have a limited > size (that is configured by user startup files). A window manager > that uses files on disk to back up windows could be developed at a > later data. { That is not what we want, we'd like the stacking > behavior of (input) pad } First of all this has nothing to do with mwm - it's purely a feature of the terminal emulators. As they say, xterm allows a backing store and that store can be specified at config time. I don't know the limit, but I suspect you could set it to 64K or so. (The DM's aren't infinite either, BTW.) The Korn shell, as I've mentioned before, does provide some of the DM-type editing functionality - all it takes is a little more work. Visually stacking commands is harder, but not impossible. -- Alfalfa Software, Inc. | Poste: The EMail for Unix nazgul@alfalfa.com | Send Anything... Anywhere 617/646-7703 (voice/fax) | info@alfalfa.com I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.