mfaurot@irscscm.UUCP (Michael Faurot) (01/22/91)
I've got a Balance running Dynix 3.14 and would like to know if there's a program or means by which one can get both dial-in and dial-out useage of a tty port? Please, no comments about upgrading to a Symmetry! I've looked into the business about using the ttyconfig command, but that looks totally useless to me. If someone would care to explain how this can be used resonably and in an automated way I'd be interested in hearing about this. Is there not some program, that could be used in a manner similar to the uugetty command under System V? If so please include comments on how and where to obtain a copy. Please send comments, suggestions and ideas by e-mail. Thanks! --Michael Faurot (mfaurot@bogart.UUCP)
keith@sequoia.execu.com (Keith Pyle) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan22.032421.9098@irscscm.UUCP> mfaurot@bogart.UUCP (Michael Faurot) writes: >I've got a Balance running Dynix 3.14 and would like to know if there's >a program or means by which one can get both dial-in and dial-out >useage of a tty port? Please, no comments about upgrading to a >Symmetry! Don't bother with the Symmetry upgrade (is this comment about an upgrade acceptable? :-). We have an S81 running 3.0.17 and Sequent still doesn't provide for this. At least if they do, they refuse to tell us about it. We've tried to get this BUG fixed for some time and have had no success with Sequent. I guess they would rather sell more ports and have us buy more modems. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Pyle UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!execu!keith Execucom Systems Corp., Austin, Texas Internet: keith@execu.com "It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where Disclaimer: Everything I say is your child processes are?" true unless I use the word 'the'. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
rbj@uunet.UU.NET (Root Boy Jim) (01/25/91)
In <31108@sequoia.execu.com> keith@sequoia.execu.com (Keith Pyle) writes: >In article <1991Jan22.032421.9098@irscscm.UUCP> mfaurot@bogart.UUCP (Michael Faurot) writes: >>[wants to use ports for dialin and dialout simultaneously] >>[asks about Symmetry upgrade] > >Don't bother with the Symmetry upgrade (is this comment about an upgrade >acceptable? :-). We have an S81 running 3.0.17 and Sequent still doesn't >provide for this. At least if they do, they refuse to tell us about it. > >We've tried to get this BUG fixed for some time and have had no success >with Sequent. I guess they would rather sell more ports and have us buy >more modems. Well, we certainly like to see people buy more modems :-) This is not a BUG. It's an opinion about The Way Things Should Be. Dialin Ports are for dialing in, and Dialout Ports are for dialing out. No one promised you you'd be able to change configuration dynamicly. Several people have attempted to be clever and provide programs that kill off gettys, make lockfiles, edit /etc/ttys on the fly and kill init. And Sun (and most likely others) have corresponding dialout devices (/dev/cua#) that do all this in the kernel. However, even if you do all this, you still have the problem of modem switch settings. You might want dialin set differently from the dialout ones. I personally subscribe to the static philosophy. We solve our problems by having most people call us. More hardware often means less software problems. -- Root Boy Jim Cottrell <rbj@uunet.uu.net> Close the gap of the dark year in between
russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan22.032421.9098@irscscm.UUCP> mfaurot@bogart.UUCP (Michael Faurot) writes: > I've got a Balance running Dynix 3.14 and would like to know if there's > a program or means by which one can get both dial-in and dial-out > useage of a tty port? Please, no comments about upgrading to a > Symmetry! In article <31108@sequoia.execu.com>, keith@sequoia.execu.com (Keith Pyle) writes: > Don't bother with the Symmetry upgrade (is this comment about an upgrade > acceptable? :-). We have an S81 running 3.0.17 and Sequent still doesn't > provide for this. At least if they do, they refuse to tell us about it. > > We've tried to get this BUG fixed for some time and have had no success > with Sequent. I guess they would rather sell more ports and have us buy > more modems. One of my customers has purchased a Gpx 6070 from Basic Four which will be arriving in a few weeks, so I anticipate having to deal with the dialin/dialout problem sooner or later. Do the fopen() and fcntl() calls under dynix permit you to set and clear the O_NDLAY flag? If so, you could use one of the PD versions of uugetty to handle incoming calls without preventing folks from using the same line as a dialout port. The uugetty would open the port with O_NDLAY clear, thus causing the open() to hang until CD goes high on the modem. When that happens, the uugetty checks for the existence of a lock file in usr/spool/locks (or whereever locks are maintained under dynix). If it finds a lockfile, it checks the process identified by the PID number in the lockfile to see if the process that created the lockfile is still active. If not, it "knows" that someone else is using the line for dialout. In this event, the uugetty goes to sleep for periodic intervals until the process is no longer active. If there isn't a lockfile, or the PID in the lockfile points to a dead process, uugetty behaves like a normal 'getty' program... setting the line discipline, fetching the user's name, and subsequently exec-ing 'login'. The potential problem (???) is that open() under dynix may not hang under certain circumstances. If so, you could still work around the problem, but the solution might be messy. -- Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000 russ@wpg.com uunet!wpg!russ
keith@sequoia.execu.com (Keith Pyle) (01/26/91)
In article <119792@uunet.UU.NET> rbj@uunet.UU.NET (Root Boy Jim) writes: >In <31108@sequoia.execu.com> keith@sequoia.execu.com (Keith Pyle) writes: >>In article <1991Jan22.032421.9098@irscscm.UUCP> mfaurot@bogart.UUCP (Michael Faurot) writes: >>>[wants to use ports for dialin and dialout simultaneously] >>>[asks about Symmetry upgrade] >> >>We've tried to get this BUG fixed for some time and have had no success >>with Sequent. I guess they would rather sell more ports and have us buy >>more modems. > >This is not a BUG. It's an opinion about The Way Things Should Be. >Dialin Ports are for dialing in, and Dialout Ports are for dialing out. >No one promised you you'd be able to change configuration dynamicly. I say tomayto, you say tomaato... (OK, the lyrics don't translate well to this medium). One person's bug is another person's feature. >Several people have attempted to be clever and provide programs >that kill off gettys, make lockfiles, edit /etc/ttys on the fly >and kill init. And Sun (and most likely others) have corresponding >dialout devices (/dev/cua#) that do all this in the kernel. I'll revise my comment: In my opinion, it is a design deficiency. Clearly, as you point out, it is possible to have dialin and dialout on the same port. Sequent has either chosen not to provide this capability, perhaps with the thought that they would sell more ports, or they simply don't care to do anything about it. Given some of our experiences with Sequent, I wouldn't be surprised either way. Then, perhaps they think this is a Good Thing. Obviously, I disagree. [Side comment: we've had an S81 for two years and are quite pleased with the hardware (except for the 8mm tape drive). However, the two of us who deal with Sequent on technical matters have fairly large mail folders and a few hours worth of comments regarding the software side of the system. Yes, we've talked with Sequent, up and down the corporate ladder. Yes, there have been some improvements, but there is still a long way to go and I don't feel that they are particularly responsive. Yes, I do have some basis for comparison. Our computer room presently houses hardware from Sequent, Sun, DEC, HP, Unisys, and Prime. We also manage systems running AIX, SCO Unix, and Interactive 386/ix.] >I personally subscribe to the static philosophy. >We solve our problems by having most people call us. If you have the option of deciding that people will generally just call you, I'm certain that this design is quite acceptable. However, when your user base requires both dialin and dialout service, it is not acceptable. We have field people who call in to prepare and run demos and we have local folks who need to call other sites for porting projects. So, we don't have the luxury that you enjoy and are instead forced into the position of getting more hardware rather than making more efficient use of that which we have. >More hardware often means less software problems. Ah, but doesn't that lead to more hardware problems? :-) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Pyle UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!execu!keith Execucom Systems Corp., Austin, Texas Internet: keith@execu.com "It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where Disclaimer: Everything I say is your child processes are?" true unless I use the word 'the'. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
csg@pyramid.pyramid.com (Carl S. Gutekunst) (01/30/91)
>Dialin/dialout has been basic functionality in BSD UNIX for at least 10 years;
How? Acucntrl didn't appear in any software *from Berkeley* until 4.3BSD,
which is barely five years ago. And acucntrl is a very poor solution, as it
requires cooperation from the out-calling task. It was also disaster prone,
and the BSD version didn't run on anything except a VAX. Note that versions of
acucntrl have been done for most BSD-ish boxes, although not by the vendors.
HoneyDanBer UUCP comes with the magic uugetty, although it doesn't work very
well. (Security problems, doesn't work with all modems, fussy about the modem
options, and so on.) Systems VR3.1 included uugetty.
The best solution -- the Chris Torek ACU device, implemented by Sun -- is a
little more than two years old. To the best of my knowledge, Sun is the only
UNIX vendor that supports this. It's a little tricky on multi-processor
systems, since you can get race conditions between last close and first open.
<csg>iain@rtf.bt.co.uk (Iain Baird) (01/30/91)
In article <119792@uunet.UU.NET> rbj@uunet.UU.NET (Root Boy Jim) writes: >In <31108@sequoia.execu.com> keith@sequoia.execu.com (Keith Pyle) writes: >>In article <1991Jan22.032421.9098@irscscm.UUCP> mfaurot@bogart.UUCP (Michael Faurot) writes: [stuff deleted] >Several people have attempted to be clever and provide programs >that kill off gettys, make lockfiles, edit /etc/ttys on the fly >and kill init. And Sun (and most likely others) have corresponding >dialout devices (/dev/cua#) that do all this in the kernel. > >However, even if you do all this, you still have the problem >of modem switch settings. You might want dialin set differently >from the dialout ones. I'm in the process of "being clever" at the moment - I'm writing a program to install in place of uucico. According to whether the -r1 flag is present, it will attempt the rigmarole described above, including reconfiguration of the Trailblazer. I don't intend to produce a generally-applicable tool, just a solution to my own immediate problem. If there is interest in this, I will post details of how well it works, when it eventually gets finished. >More hardware often means less software problems. The trick is persuading people to spend the money :-( -- Iain Baird iain@rtf.bt.co.uk ...uunet!ukc!axion!rtf!iain