Moderators.Jon.Pugh;Dwayne.Virnau;Lance.Nakata@SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (05/13/88)
INFO-MAC Digest Friday, 13 May 1988 Volume 6 : Issue 48
Today's Topics:
Mac II Wish List
Anyone know about ADA for Macs?
Macintosh Family Hardware Guide, published by Addison-Wesley
Mac 'sed' stream editor needed?!
Transfer of archived files to Janet sites
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri 6 May 88 15:08:40-PDT
From: Ken Laws <LAWS@IU.AI.SRI.COM>
Subject: Mac II Wish List
I'm new to this list, and have never used a micro, but my Mac II
will be arriving soon. I sure could use some help in picking out
the software, and other list members might appreciate seeing such
a wish-list discussion.
I'll have a 256-color Mac II with 2Mb RAM and a 40Mb internal disk, to
be used mainly for bibliographies and stacks, pattern-recognition
research, report writing, and home/education/entertainment functions.
I will be doing some coding in C and HyperTalk (and possibly CommonLisp),
and am interested in learning to write Mac-style graphical interfaces for
whatever applications I develop. I'll have an ImageWriter II
and plan to get a laser printer someday. (Incidentally, what surge
protector or other hardware support do I need?)
Here's what I've come up with so far. Can anyone help me fill
in the blanks, or warn me of problems I'm heading for? In particular,
am I planning to buy any software that's not compatible with the II?
Are there programs I really should have that I haven't mentioned?
And what public-domain software or shareware should I investigate?
(I have no idea what info-mac files I should FTP, for instance.)
Also, are there any mail-order companies I need to watch out for?
I will have remote access to a VAX that will handle my net mail and
other batch services. (I will also have a DOS PC at my NSF office linked
to the VAX.) What I need for my home computer is a terminal emulation
program and some way to transfer files. (I don't really care what
terminal I emulate, I just want to access files and send mail.) I'm
told that Red Ryder 10.3 ($62, M.A.C.; $49 at MacWAREHOUSE for 10.0)
is the best communications program around. Should I also be looking at
any of the following: InTalk 3.0 ($99, Programs Plus), MacTerminal
($99, Programs Plus), Microphone II with Glue ($209, Programs Plus;
$115 for V1.1, Tussey), Smartcom II 3.0A ($88 ?), or TOPS for the Mac 2.0
($118, M.A.C.)?
I've already ordered the Claris MacPaint 2.0 and MacDraw programs. They
came at a discount, and MacDraw can be upgraded to MacDraw II for $100
through September. I'm expecting that a color MacPaint II will come
out soon with a similar upgrade offer. Egghead is offering PixelPaint
at just $220, but I'll risk the wait. Likewise with Canvas 1.0 with DA
($109), Cricket Draw 1.1 ($159), and all the other great graphics programs.
I briefly considered Cricket Graph 1.2 ($112, Warehouse Mac Products),
but will probably get graphing functions as part of Trapeze 2.0
($160, Tussey) or in a statistical package. Anyway, I'm not sure which
of these non-Claris programs work well with my ImageWriter II and I'm
not really into art, CAD/CAM, or desktop publishing.
I'm ordering WordPerfect ($189) because I'll also be using it at my new
office on a DOS PC. Do I also need Expressionist 1.11 ($42, M.A.C.)
for equations, and is it II-compatible yet? How does it compare to MacEQN
($38, M.A.C.)? Do I also need an editor like QUED ($60, M.A.C.) or
microemacs to work on source code without embedding formatting characters?
I plan to get Spellswell 2.0 ($39, M.A.C.) , but will count on fiber media
for single-word lookup. I've heard there's a Document Compare program,
but haven't found a source; is it public-domain?
M.A.C. is offering PageMaker 2.0a for only $309, with a $15 upgrade to 3.0.
Is there any reason I should prefer ReadySetGo! 4.0 for $279 ($249,
Beverly Hills?)? Am I getting into PostScript/QuickDraw problems here?
And what chance is there that I can ship formatted output to a DOS-oriented
(or VAX-oriented) laser printer at my office?
I would like to be able to generate nice slide presentations, either as
overheads or by phoning files to a 35mm slide printer. I'd like to have
PowerPoint 1.0 ($239, MacConnection), although perhaps MORE 1.1c
($149, MacWAREHOUSE) would be equally useful. I'm sure MORE is II-compatible,
but I don't know about PowerPoint. Perhaps I'll stick with HyperCard or
my paint program to make slides -- or should I be looking at a
formatted-spreadsheet program such as Trapeze 2.0?
I also want to compile bibliographies and dictionary-style paragraph lists.
For annotated bibliographies, how does the newly announced Publish or Perish
compare with Professional Bibliographic System ($209, The MacZone)?
Should I stick with my text editor and TEXtures 1.0 ($279, Programs Plus)
with LaTeX ($33, M.A.C.)? Or will I be better off using page layout
tools, especially if I want to write a book with a few illustrations?
HyperCard comes with the Mac. Will I want Hyper DA ($38) despite my
2Mb MultiFinder system, and is it II-compatible? I'll probably get
Reports ($62, Programs Plus) if it's II-compatible. Does HyperCard
itself allow me to print stack text sorted on various fields, without
having to print card images? HyperBook Maker ($30, Programs Pluse)
looks nice, but I don't really need the graphics (yet).
Is Focal Point ($58, M.A.C.) II-compatible, and is it really more useful
than vanilla HyperCard? Are there some other object-oriented or full-text
database systems I should be looking into? Can one store and access
things like recipes in FileMaker Plus 2.0 ($149)?
Since my profession is digital image processing, sooner or later I'm
going to want to store and manipulate scanned images. I intend to get
ThunderScan 4.0 ($172 + $42 for the Mac II, MacWAREHOUSE) and maybe
Read-It!TS ($79). I will have to write my own code to do content
manipulation, but what image database system should I buy? I've heard
of ImageStudio ($279), but have no idea what it does. Curator ($79)
and Picture Base 1.2 ($58, MacConnection) sound good, but is either
II-compatible?
I presume that I should get SmartScrap and The Clipper ($35, MacConnection),
as well as SuperGlue ($52). Is Glue 1.04 ($39, The MacZone; Free with
Microphone) just a subset of SuperGlue?
I'm still thinking about VideoWorks II 2.0 ($117, The MacZone), mainly
as a toy for my kids, but I'm not sure whether it's too difficult to use
or even whether it's II-compatible. I hear there's a new product
integrating VideoWorks with HyperCard; I'll have to look into it.
Speaking of kids, I'd love to get them some music-appreciation programs.
I've heard that Music Mouse ($46, M.A.C.) won't run on the Mac II (or at
least that its "MIDI addresses are incompatible"). Studio Session 1.4
($49, MacConnection) is likewise incompatible. How about the following:
Listen 2.0 ($57, M.A.C.); Deluxe Music Construction Set 2.0 ($61);
and Practica Musica ($77, MacWAREHOUSE)?
I haven't identified much other good software in the educational
category. Business Simulator ($48, MacWAREHOUSE) sounds like a good
idea, but too advanced for my kids at present. Chipwits would
be good, but I haven't found a source and I doubt that it will run
on my machine. Is Puppy Love ($19, MacConnection) the same sort of thing
as Chipwits, or do you need a live puppy? What is Mac Robots
($27, MacConnection)?
I'll have to investigate public-domain educational software since I
can't stand to risk $30 or so for programs that my kids may outgrow
in half an hour. Can anyone recommend a good source? Is anyone
publishing BASIC programs on 800K disks or making code available
via modem? Is there a II-on-a-Mac emulator or a software DOS
emulator available for the Mac II? Is there a good stackware source
I should investigate?
Are any foreign-language tutorials available on the Mac II? I'm
especially interested in Japanese and Chinese, although I'm not far
enough along to need Apple's Kanji development environment. I would
also be interested in other kinds of tutorials for my kids.
Dinner at Eight sounds like something I'd be interested in (especially if I
could modify the database -- it's CP), but I haven't figured out the
difference between the Silver Palate Bundle ($51, Programs Plus) and
the Encore Edition Bundle ($51, MacConnection). Maybe I'll wait for
good stackware, or create my own. (Is there a stackware discussion list
I could tune in to?)
Another of my hobbies, or at least areas of expertise, is statistics.
I don't have any data to analyze just now, but may acquire some if I
find the time for pattern recognition or computer vision research.
I can write regression solvers and other such routines if I have to,
but it would be nice to have a good stat package around. Ones that
sound interesting are MacSpin ($145, M.A.C.), StatView II ($340, M.A.C.),
StatWorks 1.2 ($74, MacWAREHOUSE), and SYSTAT 3.1 ($459, MacConnection).
I'd be grateful for leads to review articles, or for information on how
StatView II differs from StatView 512+ 1.1 ($175). Are there any
public-domain programs I should be looking at?
There are also some interesting symbolic equation solvers and
numerical analysis programs. I'll let them keep improving until
I really need to buy one. Pencil and paper are usually adequate for
me, and I've got books that show me how to set up numerical solutions
for all kinds of problems. All I need is a programming language.
My main programming language is C. I'm used to a Unix environment,
and expect Unix to win out in the workstation world, but for now I'm
more interested in adapting myself to the Mac environment than in
continuing to use vi, grep, awk, etc. So I'll go with Lightspeed C
instead of the Aztec package or AU/X. Version 2.01 is $95, but M.A.C.
has version 2.13 for $116; anybody know the difference? And what are the
LSC Version 2 Program Extender ($70, M.A.C.) and LSC CAPP's ($49)?
I'm a good C programmer, but I know nothing about the Mac architecture.
What books should I get? Inside Macintosh? And do I need the TMON
debugger ($94, MacWAREHOUSE), or can I get along fine without it? Would
MacNosy for the Mac II ($289, M.A.C.) be useful, or should I wait until
I find a critical need for it? Are there any particular disk utilities
or toolkits that I need for writing application programs? Do I need
the Macintosh 68000 Development System ($59)?
I'd buy Coral/Allegro CommonLisp if I had the cash, but I'll wait until I
find an application I can't program in C. Likewise with Prolog, although
I currently have no idea which Prolog to get: AAIS Prolog ($167),
ExperProlog II, LPA MacProlog, or Prolog/m. Perhaps I'll know by the
time I figure out what Prolog is good for. Someday I'll also get one
or more expert system shells, but right now I'm waiting for Nexpert
to drop to a reasonable PC price.
I'll get ZBasic 4.0 ($60, M.A.C.) so that my kids can type in game programs
from Creative Computing. I'm sure the MS Basic Compiler ($119) is good too.
(By the way, M.A.C. sells ZBasic for $10 more with a "converter"; what's that?)
I might get a Logo so that my kids can do turtle graphics, although I think
I'll wait until they're exposed to team programming at school. By then
I should be able to chose between ExperLogo 1.1 ($119) and Object Logo
($76, ComputerWare). (I'm not sure these programs are II-compatible yet.)
I'm almost completely ignorant about utilities, especially all the Disk/Desk
names. I'll definitely get DiskFit 1.4 ($50, Tussey). Suitcase
($35, The MacZone) and Stepping Out II ($55, Programs Plus) look
worth getting. Would Power Station ($36, The MacZone) be of use to me?
I'll wait to see if I feel the need for QuicKeys 1.1 ($62, MacWAREHOUSE)
or something like Icon-It! ($39).
Some of the other utilities known to be II-compatible are Copy II Mac 7.0
with MacTools ($20), Disk First Aid, Disk Ranger, Fedit Plus
($30, ComputerWare), Findswell ($29), Hard Disk Util 2.0 ($54, MacConnection),
MacSafe 1.08 ($94, MacWAREHOUSE), MacZap 5.0 & Disc Clinic
($36, MacWAREHOUSE), and MockPackage+. Do I need any of these?
Sidekick 2.0 ($59) is not II-compatible, and I don't know if I'd
need it even if it were. Other utilities that have not been reported
OK are Battery Pac ($34, M.A.C.), Disk Quick, Front Desk ($80, Egghead),
Packit III, and TopDesk 2.3 ($32). Any comments?
Game programs are likewise divided into II-compatible, unknown, and
incompatible. The first group includes Balance of Power 1.03 ($30),
Crystal Quest ($24, MacConnection), Deja Vu ($29), ShadowGate ($30),
Shanghai ($24), Smash Hit Racquetball II ($22), Uninvited ($30),
and Zork Trilogy ($42, MacConnection).
Those that I'm not sure about, and therefore in greatest need of information
about, are Apache Strike ($27), Battle Stations ($20, MacWAREHOUSE),
Beyond Dark Castle ($26, M.A.C.), Beyond Zork ($30), Borrowed Time,
Carmen San Diego ($25, Programs Plus), Chessmaster 2000 ($28),
Down Hill Racer ($24), Klondike, Mind Over Mac ($28, MacConnection),
Orbquest, Psion Chess ($31), Quarterstaff ($29, MacWAREHOUSE),
Real Poker ($27, The MacZone), Sargon III 1.0 ($29), Seven Cities of Gold
($15, Programs Plus), and Trust and Betrayal ($30). By the way,
is Chessmaster 2000 or Psion Chess the better program?
For the record, the following have been reported as definitely
not compatible: Archon ($15), Ancient Art of War ($25, Tussey),
Dark Castle ($26, MacWAREHOUSE), Ferrari Grand Prix ($32),
Fokker Triplane 1.0 ($32, MacWAREHOUSE), GATO 1.42 ($26),
Lode Runner ($24), MacGolf 2.0 ($35, Tussey), MS Flight
Simulator 1.0 ($32), Ogre ($20), Orbiter ($26), Skyfox ($15),
Ultima III ($24, MacConnection), Winter Games ($24), and
Mac Wizardry ($34, The MacZone). Am I wrong?
If I'm to become a Mac hacker, I'm going to need some literature.
Prices aren't a big deal, with wide selection and comparable
discounts easily available. But what do I need? (I especially want
reference books and clever techniques, not hand-holding tutorials.)
Inside Macintosh, I'm sure, and the HyperCard Handbook. What else?
I apologize for the length of this message. I've tried to do my
homework, but there's a lot to learn and little time for learning it.
Store clerks can be of some help, and I'm still hunting through info-mac
archives and old MacUser/MacWorld issues for product reviews, but
discussion lists are the best consulting medium ever developed.
I'll be happy to share information, including my full price database,
with anyone else on the net.
-- Ken Laws
SOURCES
Note: listed prices may have changed, or may even be for older
software versions than I've listed. I've included the best prices
I've found as a public service. (I have no financial interest in
these companies, unfortunately.)
Beverly Hills Computer
279 South Beverly Drive, Suite 1200
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
(800) 426-8166
[May MacWorld ad prices.]
ComputerWare
490 California Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306
(415) 323-7559
Egghead Software
El Camino
Menlo Park, CA 94025
[Will beat CA prices by $1.]
Icon Review
9570 Mid Valley Center
Carmel, CA 93923
(408) 625-0465
(800) 228-8910
[May MacWorld ad prices.]
M.A.C.
2156A University Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94704
(415) 644-0516
(800) 289-2622
[Will beat advertised Bay Area prices.]
MacConnection
14 Mill Street
Marlow, NH 03456
(800) 622-5472
[May MacWorld ad prices.]
MacWAREHOUSE
1690 Oak St.
P.O. Box 1579
Lakewood, NJ 08701
(800) 255-6227
[Refundable $2 catalog.]
[May MacWorld ad prices.]
Programs Plus
75 Research Drive
Stratford, Conn. 06497
(800) 832-3201
[May MacWorld ad prices.]
The MacZone
7102 180th Ave. NE, Bldg A107
Redmond, WA 98052
(800) 248-0800 for orders
(206) 883-1975 for information
[$2 catalog.]
[March MacUser ad prices.]
Tussey Computer Products
P.O. Box 1006
State College, PA 16804
(800) 468-9044
[May MacWorld ad prices.]
Warehouse Mac Products
2701 W. Glendale Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85051
(800) 421-3135
[May MacWorld ad prices.]
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Date: Sat, 07 May 88 16:06:57 IST
From: "Jonathan B. Owen" <GDAU100%BGUVM.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Subject: Anyone know about ADA for Macs?
Hi Macfreaks!
Does anyone know if an ADA compiler is, or will be in the near future,
available for a Mac?
I have heard of such a compiler for the 80286 based IBM PC. I assume
a Mac based on a 68020 (16Mhz) with enough memory should be sufficient
to run such a compiler.
Hope to hear a positive answer.
Thanks,
JB
______________________________________________________________________________
(--) /--) /-(\ Email: gdau100@bguvm (bitnet)
\ / /--K \/\ /\/) /-\ Snail: 6/15 Mendelson, Tel-Aviv Israel
_/_/o /L__)_/o \/\__/ \X/ \_/ _/ Voice: (03) 557-7519
(/ Jonathan B. Owen
Point of view: A chicken is the means by which an egg reproduces an egg.
______________________________________________________________________________
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Date: 7 May 1988, 14:51:50 CST
From: Robert J. Brenstein (618) 453-5721 x 227 GA0095 at
From: SIUCVMB
I have downloaded a public domain DA called 'Maxwell 2.2' from MACSERVE@PUCC
a while ago. A note in that program claims that its source code is in
the public domain as well. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find it
anywhere. I wonder if anyone can help me to get hold of that code or at
least get in touch with Coyote Systems, the author of that code.
Your help is greatly appreciated... via email, preferably.
Robert Brenstein, <GA0095@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
------------------------------
From: michel jacquemin <jacquemin-michel@YALE.ARPA>
Date: Thu, 5 May 88 18:55:05 EDT
Subject: Macintosh Family Hardware Guide, published by Addison-Wesley
Addison-Wesley is going to publish a thing called "Macintosh Family
Hardware Guide", from APDA. My local bookstore says it's going to
come out around January 89. I want to know whether there is a way
to get a hand on it (or a preliminary version of it) before this date,
I am sure it already exists somewhere. Any pointer welcome.
Michel Jacquemin
(jacquemin@cs.yale.edu , jacquemin@yalecs.BITNET , ...harvard!yale!jacquemi)
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 88 22:01 EDT
From: science@nems.ARPA (Mark Zimmermann)
Subject: Mac 'sed' stream editor needed?!
in the course of building big multi-megabyte free-text database files for
indexing/browsing (with my 'Texas/indexer/browser' software) I often have
need of a simple but fast editor to do repetitive things to big files.
Microsoft WORD is very buggy when dealing with files bigger than 4 MB or
so, and of course it's horrendously slow in doing global search/replace
and such on those files. So, two quick questions come to mind:
- is there a better editor for huge files? (How does Write Now handle
ASCII text files bigger than memory holds, for instance? MacWrite is out
of the question. Any other candidates?)
- is there a Macintosh equivalent of 'sed', the UNIX stream editor? Could
I get source code somehow for sed and compile up a Mac version without
too much trouble (in Lightspeed C for example)? Is there anything better
than sed for arbitrarily big files?
Tnx for any suggestions -- ^z
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Date: 25 Mar 1988 20:57:30-WET
Subject: Transfer of archived files to Janet sites
From: cd148 <cd148%CITY.AC.UK@forsythe.stanford.edu>
I have recently subscribed to info-mac@suvm and am now wondering how I might
transfer archived files to my my host. I seem to have the problem that
sites on the Janet network in the UK cannot fetch files from earn/bitnet to
Janet. I would much appreciate any advise you may be able to offer.
Thanks, Adrian Lappin
[Moderator's Note: I don't know if it's possible for JANET sites to get
Info-Mac files. Any comments from someone who has had successful
transfers? - Lance]
[Moderator's Note2: The ONLY way to get files from the Sumex archives is
with the FTP program from an ARPAnet host. Anything else has to be done
through a willing intermediary. - Jon ]
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End of INFO-MAC Digest
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