Moderators.Jon.Pugh;Dwayne.Virnau;Lance.Nakata@SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (05/19/88)
INFO-MAC Digest Thursday, 19 May 1988 Volume 6 : Issue 50
Today's Topics:
re: mac II Wish List
Re: Mac II Wish List
MPW Fortran V1.0B3 vs. Mactran Plus v3.0
Re: MultiFinder switch bug with custom WDEFs
taking Mac's on airplanes
Patching LSP's sound glue
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Date: Thu, 12 May 88 23:12:12 PDT
From: digiorgi@VLSI.JPL.NASA.GOV
Subject: re: mac II Wish List
re: Info-Mac vol 6 #48
Mac II wish list
ken laws:LAWS@IU.AI.SRI.COM
Jeez, guy, if you did all that homework and study on programs and prices
and STILL dont know which are mac II compatible, I don't know what to say!
I usually suggest to newcomers to the Mac to start with one or two programs
(usually a word processor and something to produce graphics in either the
chart/analysis kind of vein or the paint/draw world), get used to them and
the machine, and then buy other programs and utilities as the need (desire)
arise. I feel too many people, new to the machine, load themselves up with
a lot of software that doesn't really address their needs and never really
learn the basics of using a Mac to its full advantage. MacWrite and
MacPaint were all I had for about two or three months in 1984 and I got a
lot done with them (and sold my boss on Macs as a viable computer in my
office).
On the other hand, you are obviously computer literate and want to program.
My raster of things to buy looks like the following:
Application Software:
word processing - FullWrite is the best right now (well, you already got
WordPerfect; I think it's a dog. A powerful program, but poor design. I
have it, and don't use it.). FullWrite also dispenses with the need for a
dedicated (MacDraw) graphics program to some extent, as well as does a
fair bit of page layout type work.
WriteNow is adequate for simpler requirements and a lot cheaper.
graphics - HyperCard has all the paint tools I need for my bitmap graphics
stuff, MacDraw or Canvas are what I use otherwise. For data modeling, the
StatXXX, CricketGraph, Excel, Trapeze, etc. suit various purposes and people
in particular ways. I also have MacRecorder and ThunderScan, and a graphics
tablet, but then I love toys and find work for them occasionally.
terminal emulation - Only one cuts the mustard if you actually USE a VAX
and that's Versaterm (or the PRO version). Very good terminal, many
features, underpriced.
database: HyperCard serves most of my personal needs adequately, the range
of dedicated data manglers is so complex you need to know more to advise
better. I have several and keep using the simplest - you know where I stand.
There's about a zillion other programs that I have/use
occasionally/whatever. Everything under the sun, in at least a dozen
flavors each. Go slow, buy what you like, use what you buy.
Programming:
Programming on a Mac is nearly impossible without the Inside Macintosh v 1-5
series, the Tech Notes and development system support docs. Addison
Wesley's Introduction to Macintosh family hardware and Introduction to
Macintosh Programming I found fantastic (and I've been playing with this
thing since '84). Scott Knaster's two books are also excellent. Many other
titles are on the shelves. All have good and bad.
I've become I personal fan of MPW, after becoming disenchanted with the
other programming environments (Lightspeed C and Pascal, TML Pascal,
Consulair C, MegaMax C, NEON, Forth, LOGO, you name it, I've fooled with
it). The editor is not extraordinarily fast, but very powerful. The MPW
editor can also handle arbitrarily large documents and has scriptable
editing capabilities. It is also a complete command line based interface
package. You work on a Mac differently from a terminal style environment -
VI, EMACS etc are awful when you get involved with this machine. My
opinion. The MPW Tools are great. The Pascal, C and Asm support, the Rez
compiler, etc, just work right. Steep learning curve, but worth it.
Lightspeed C v2.13 is current package and includes the libraries for most
Mac II managers, as well as for the current System 5.0 release.
Utilities:
Three classes of necessary things: disk block editor, disk maintenance
software, and convenience utilities.
disk block editor - I use FEdit Plus, it works fine, and has saved me many
times over.
convenience utilities - biggest difficulties I like to overcome are font
and desk accessory handling - either SuitCase or Font/DA Juggler are worth
the money - I have both. QuicKeys is great for an extended keyboard.
disk maintenance - YOU NEED A GOOD BACKUP PROGRAM. I use both DiskFit and
FlashBack for two different kinds of backing up. Disk Express cleans up the
mess I make with creating and deleting lots of files. StuffIt is excellent
for file archiving. There are also a few catalogers for handling lots of
the floppies you generate: these are handy.
Otherwise, fine toys abound - enjoy.
Everything above works fine on both my Mac II and my Mac Plus. Most real
Mac software now works on all machines, or at least the Plus and up.
the opinions and endorsements above reflect only the truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help me ... so help me ... so help me ...
Godfrey DiGiorgi
digiorgi@jpl-vlsi.arpa
12 May 1988
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Date: Fri, 13 May 88 10:07:34 PDT
From: hplabs!csun!polyslo!dorourke@rutgers.edu (David O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: Mac II Wish List
Reply-to: hplabs!csun!polyslo!dorourke@rutgers.edu (David O'Rourke)
In article <8805130224.AA09798@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU writes:
>Date: Fri 6 May 88 15:08:40-PDT
>From: Ken Laws <LAWS@IU.AI.SRI.COM>
>Subject: Mac II Wish List
>told that Red Ryder 10.3 ($62, M.A.C.; $49 at MacWAREHOUSE for 10.0)
>is the best communications program around. Should I also be looking at
>any of the following: InTalk 3.0 ($99, Programs Plus), MacTerminal
>($99, Programs Plus), Microphone II with Glue ($209, Programs Plus;
>$115 for V1.1, Tussey), Smartcom II 3.0A ($88 ?), or TOPS for the Mac 2.0
>($118, M.A.C.)?
Red Ryder is very powerful, but from a user standpoint the tip of the
hat in my opinion has to go to smartcom II. It real nice and resonably
simple to use. And does a good vt102 emulation. I use RedRyder from local
pc oriented BBS's, but I use SmartCom to log on to Unix system.
Inbox is only useful if you're going to want e-mail on an Appletalk
network. Also TOPS is for file-services over Appletalk as well, not a main
stream product for a single user enviroment, but when you network you self
TOPS and Inbox are wonderful.
>I'm ordering WordPerfect ($189) because I'll also be using it at my new
>office on a DOS PC.
Please don't do this to your self. WordPerfect, while functional, is
one of the worst pieces of MacSoftware I've ever seen from a major company.
If you like WP on Dos then you'll like WP on the Mac, but I prefer something
better. At least buy Word, and if you really want to see Macintosh WP at
it's best get FullWrite Professional. But anything accept Word Perfect.
>Do I also need Expressionist 1.11 ($42, M.A.C.)
Most likely, although you can do equations in products like MacPaint
and MacDraw and via the built in ClipBoard transfer them to any other
program. Not something you'd think out coming from a DOS enviroment. But
Expressionist makes things a lot easier.
>Do I also need an editor like QUED ($60, M.A.C.) or
>microemacs to work on source code without embedding formatting characters?
No most all of the WP's for the mac have ASCII text options. But you will
want a programming editor. The best editors are QUED, wonderful programming
editor that I have never seen an equal too on any system.
>I plan to get Spellswell 2.0 ($39, M.A.C.) , but will count on fiber media
Why, most all of the WP's for the Mac come with spell checkers?
>And what chance is there that I can ship formatted output to a DOS-oriented
>(or VAX-oriented) laser printer at my office?
Well if you buy an Appletalk card for the PC, and then start using Word
for the PC you'll be able to print directly to the LaserPrinter, and if you
use word for the Mac {much better than Word Perfect, but I still prefer
FullWrite} it will read/write MS-Dos Word files.
>manipulation, but what image database system should I buy? I've heard
>of ImageStudio ($279)
ImageStudio allows the retouching of digitized Images, you have to see it
to believe it!
>I presume that I should get SmartScrap and The Clipper ($35, MacConnection),
>as well as SuperGlue ($52). Is Glue 1.04 ($39, The MacZone; Free with
>Microphone) just a subset of SuperGlue?
All of these products are good and they do serve a purpose, but the
Macintosh is resonably integrated thru the existing support in the OS for
the exchange of Information between unrelated programs. Play with the Mac
first, find out what it can do, and then decide if you need these products.
>I'm still thinking about VideoWorks II 2.0 ($117, The MacZone), mainly
>as a toy for my kids, but I'm not sure whether it's too difficult to use
>or even whether it's II-compatible. I hear there's a new product
>integrating VideoWorks with HyperCard; I'll have to look into it.
VideoWorks II is wonderful, and it was made for the II. It might be
too difficult as a toy, but if you do image processing it will knock your
socks off. Also I've noticed a distinct worry about compatiability. The
Mac II is very compatible, you typically don't have to worry about software
running on a normal Mac that won't run on the II. The notable exceptions
are mostly games, other than that you can assume the product will run.
>I'll have to investigate public-domain educational software since I
>can't stand to risk $30 or so for programs that my kids may outgrow
>in half an hour. Can anyone recommend a good source? Is anyone
>publishing BASIC programs on 800K disks or making code available
>via modem? Is there a II-on-a-Mac emulator or a software DOS
>emulator available for the Mac II? Is there a good stackware source
>I should investigate?
I suggest Macintosh Pascal from Apple, rather than Basic. It is a
Pascal interpreter, and very fun to program, symbolic debugging, graphics,
step by step execution, really nice, take a look at it if you get a chance.
Yes there is a Dos emulator for the Macintosh called SoftPC works quite
well according to the net mail, I suggest you start reading comp.sys.mac.
>My main programming language is C. I'm used to a Unix environment,
>and expect Unix to win out in the workstation world, but for now I'm
>more interested in adapting myself to the Mac environment than in
>continuing to use vi, grep, awk, etc. So I'll go with Lightspeed C
>instead of the Aztec package or AU/X. Version 2.01 is $95, but M.A.C.
>has version 2.13 for $116; anybody know the difference? And what are the
>LSC Version 2 Program Extender ($70, M.A.C.) and LSC CAPP's ($49)?
You really should look into MPW. Macintosh Programer Workshop. It is a
bourne style shell, with one of the best text editors I've seen. It supports
Pascal, C, Assembly, Modula II, Fortran, Ada and a varity of other languages.
All of the languages produce compatable output that the linker pulls together
to make the object code.
In addition programs written in MPW C can be ported to A/UX with few
modifications.
The shell supports: Shell Scripts, Variables, Piping, redirection of
standard input and output, ect.... If you're used to Unix you will LOVE
MPW. It is the most complete development enviroment I've ever seen on any,
system of any size. {ps. I've worked on at least 10 systems in the past 10
years, micro & mainframe}
>I'm a good C programmer, but I know nothing about the Mac architecture.
>What books should I get? Inside Macintosh? And do I need the TMON
>debugger ($94, MacWAREHOUSE), or can I get along fine without it? Would
>MacNosy for the Mac II ($289, M.A.C.) be useful, or should I wait until
>I find a critical need for it? Are there any particular disk utilities
>or toolkits that I need for writing application programs? Do I need
>the Macintosh 68000 Development System ($59)?
Inside Macintosh is a must, after that any book that tickles your fancy
will most likely help.
>I might get a Logo so that my kids can do turtle graphics, although I think
>I'll wait until they're exposed to team programming at school. By then
>I should be able to chose between ExperLogo 1.1 ($119) and Object Logo
>($76, ComputerWare). (I'm not sure these programs are II-compatible yet.)
Macintosh pascal has a good graphics model, and there are several good
books on the subject. Also Turbo Pascal supports turtle graphics.
>I'm almost completely ignorant about utilities, especially all the Disk/Desk
>names. I'll definitely get DiskFit 1.4 ($50, Tussey). Suitcase
>($35, The MacZone) and Stepping Out II ($55, Programs Plus) look
>worth getting. Would Power Station ($36, The MacZone) be of use to me?
>I'll wait to see if I feel the need for QuicKeys 1.1 ($62, MacWAREHOUSE)
>or something like Icon-It! ($39).
I would recommend FastBack over DiskFit. It's been completely re done
for the Mac an is much more functional than diskFit, it is also the fastest
disk backup I've seen. I've have used most/all of the disk backups and
Fastback is what I have settled on.
Buy QuickKeys!!!!!!!!!
>Some of the other utilities known to be II-compatible are Copy II Mac 7.0
>with MacTools ($20), Disk First Aid, Disk Ranger, Fedit Plus
>($30, ComputerWare), Findswell ($29), Hard Disk Util 2.0 ($54, MacConnection),
>MacSafe 1.08 ($94, MacWAREHOUSE), MacZap 5.0 & Disc Clinic
>($36, MacWAREHOUSE), and MockPackage+. Do I need any of these?
They'd be nice. Here again you worry too much. They aren't games so you
have a high chance that they will work. General rule of thumb, it's not a game
it works on all Macintoshs.
>If I'm to become a Mac hacker, I'm going to need some literature.
>Prices aren't a big deal, with wide selection and comparable
>discounts easily available. But what do I need? (I especially want
>reference books and clever techniques, not hand-holding tutorials.)
>Inside Macintosh, I'm sure, and the HyperCard Handbook. What else?
Subscription to MacTutor. The only programers magazine for the Macintosh,
in addition MacUser is a good general purpose Magazine.
David M. O'Rourke
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but |
| | if you like them they can be yours too. |
| | Besides I'm just a student so what do I |
| | know! |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign |
| that there are TOO many Lawyer's. |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 May 1988 16:27:24 PDT
Sender: "William J. Lipa" <lipa@polya.stanford.edu>
From: William Lipa <lipa@polya.stanford.edu>
Subject: MPW Fortran V1.0B3 vs. Mactran Plus v3.0
I have compared these two compilers on a Mac II in an effort to determine
which one is more usable. Originally I bought Absoft Fortran/020, but the
frequency of unexplained system errors and the buggy nature of the code
produced rendered the compiler essentially useless.
The summary is that MacTran is harder to use and less polished in general,
but it has one extreme advantage: it works, and it works NOW. I have been
porting several extremely large programs from a VAX, and MacTran was able to
handle then with only a few minor changes (units, etc.). MPW Fortran was
unable to run them successfully (a system error in one case, and incorrect
results in the other).
MPW Fortran is a much nicer environment, however. Editing is quite natural as
is the somewhat Unix-like shell interface. Even though it is less graphically
oriented, it is much less frustrating on a day-to-day basis than MacTran's
interface, which does not adhere completely to the Mac standard. However,
the fact is that MPW Fortran is not debugged yet.
So my recommendation is to get MacTran Plus if you need a good-quality
Fortran compiler right away. However, think about making the switch to MPW
Fortran once a less buggy version comes along. It is still in beta, after
all. Avoid Absoft Fortran like the plague; it is worse than both of them.
Bill Lipa
lipa%polya@forsythe.stanford.edu
PS. MacTran Plus is from DCM Data Products, (817)870-2202. MPW Fortran is
from Language Systems Corp., (703)478-0181.
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Date: Mon, 16 May 88 12:38:15 PDT
From: PEPKE%FSU.MFENET@NMFECC.ARPA
Subject: Re: MultiFinder switch bug with custom WDEFs
>> Perhaps someone could explain the rationale for PROHIBITING a context switch
>> when a modal dialog box is in front...
> The rationale is one of user interface. A modal dialog should be used
> when the user must interact with it before the (visible) task can
> continue. If this is not its purpose, then the dialog should be
> modeless.
The Apple Human Interface guidelines point out that you must dismiss a
modal dialog box before doing ANYTHING else, which is in fact the case.
The problem is that this is an unreasonable restriction. There have been
a lot of notes about the fact that modal dialogs do not let you use the
edit menu, even if there is text to edit. They also do not let you use
a desk accessory such as a calculator or a file locator, even if these
things would help you fill in the blanks in the dialog box.
The purpose of modality in these dialog boxes should not be to prevent
you from doing anything at all but rather should prevent you from
doing anything in the application which could either conflict with the
operation in progress or allow you to forget that you need to answer the
questions in the dialog box. This can be satified without going to extremes.
For example, a "modal" dialog box might allow you to use the edit menu
and the desk accessories (thus allowing a switch to a different layer)
but disable all other menu items and beep on clicks on other windows.
One problem is that there is no standard way to do this, and there are
many possible views on how it should be done. For example, should
the Quit item be enabled? (I am of the opinion that perfect programs
should ALWAYS have an escape hatch and that it should ALWAYS be in the
same place, but it is difficult to work that idea in with modal dialogs.)
Should menu-oriented help schemes work with dialogs? Should there be some
limited way of looking at the document? Questions, questions, questions.
The other problem and the reason that many programmers (including me) don't
use such a scheme is that ModalDialog is so easy to use, and building in this
capability is a lot of work for (from a programmer's viewpoint) a relatively
small benefit. A standard capability of this kind could fairly easily be
built into skeletons, but only after the particulars had been decided.
Eric Pepke pepke%fsu.mfenet@nmfecc.arpa
Supercomputer Computations pepke%scri.hepnet@lbl-csa2.arpa
Research Institute pepke%fsu.bitnet@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Florida State University "It happens sometimes. People just
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 explode. Natural causes."
Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
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Subject: taking Mac's on airplanes
Date: Mon, 16 May 88 17:38:24 -0400
From: jmccombi@VAX.BBN.COM
Recently there was a question on the net about taking Macintoshes on
airplanes. Though there is usually no problem with fitting it under
the seat, we should note that some foreign airlines are not permiting
computers on board for security reasons. In particular, I recently
flew on SwissAir Boston - Zurich; in Boston I noticed a sign at the
check-in counter that stated quite clearly "for security reasons, no
computers allowed on board." It seems that with all the metal in
computers, one might easily hide explosives in, say, a Macintosh
chassis, and it would be impossible to see in the X-ray machine.
Note: Fortunately, I wasn't travelling with my Mac at the time, so I
didn't get the chance to challenge them on this; despite all their
posturing, I don't know how flexible they would be in fact.
Moral of story: check with the individual airline before going to the
airport for your flight. Should a list be created, I'd be interested
in seeing a summary of which airlines do and do not allow computers on
board.
Jon McCombie
BBN Laboratories
Disclaimer: opinions expressed herein are mine, and not those of my
employer or anyone else.
------------------------------
Date: Mon 16 May 88 20:53:26-PDT
From: Brodie Lockard <I.ISIMO@LEAR.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Patching LSP's sound glue
Rich Siegel wrote recently that
asm {move.w ROMBase, $E4}
would make "the Sound Driver glue" work in MultiFinder. He mentioned LSC, so
I assumed he meant this would make stuff written in LSC or LSP work under
MultiFinder. Helpful Folks tell me that this translates to the Pascal
procedure Foo;
INLINE $31F8, $02AE, $00E4;
I tried this at the end of a program but it locks up my machin (the mouse
moves but that's all). I am using SoundWave's library and am having problems
that fit Rich's description: things are fine under the Finder, and the first
time through under MultiFinder. The second time under MultiFinder, the
program bombs when trying to play a sound. What am I missing?
Brodie Lockard
I.ISIMO@LEAR.STANFORD.EDU
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End of INFO-MAC Digest
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