Info-Mac-Request@SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (The Moderators) (03/09/90)
Info-Mac Digest Fri, 9 Mar 90 Volume 8 : Issue 49 Today's Topics: BBS ? Casio<->Mac Software Context-specific "beep" sounds DA printing to DeskWriter under MF FDHD Troubles Font/DA catalog program needed Info-Mac Digest V8 #39 LCD Projection, etc. Meander 1.0 NetHack 3.0 patchlevel 6 for the Mac Online America RedRyder and MultiFinder Shareware Fees (how to pay them) ShowINIT source code package Sound Manager Switchable power supplies TokenTalk confusion! TOPS questions Turning off video-card interrupts (an urgent question). where is Mouser? window resize help! (from Info-Mac Digest V8 #29) WindowShade/Rumors Word 4 & Adobe Type Manager Your Info-Mac Moderators are Bill Lipa, Lance Nakata, and Jon Pugh. The Info-Mac archives are available (by using FTP, account anonymous, any password) in the info-mac directory on sumex-aim.stanford.edu [36.44.0.6]. Help files are in /info-mac/help. Indicies are in /info-mac/help/recent-files.txt and /info-mac/help/all-files.txt. Please send articles and binaries to info-mac@sumex-aim.stanford.edu. Send administrative mail to info-mac-request@sumex-aim.stanford.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Mar 5 01:50:33 BST 1990 From: hippo%tardis.computer-science.edinburgh.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Subject: BBS ? Anyone out there recommend any decent bulletin board packages running on Macs? It has to run on a Mac, 'cos it's for my local AppleCentre (who aren't allowed to have any other CPU's under the same roof!). I'd only envisage one phone line, so need only be single user. I'd want mail, up and down loading, all the usual stuff. As usual, post direct and I'll summarise .. -- Hugh Hey, this is great! I don't work for anyone anymore! I don't need to put any disclaimers in here! I will anyway. Views and opinions expressed in this message are most positively those of "The Software Conspiracy". I know, because I own it. It's all mine! Nobody to tell me what to do anymore! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 90 22:33:30 EST From: "Alecia T. Devantier" <34L4PCN@cmuvm.bitnet> Subject: Casio<->Mac Software In regard to the person asking for Beta Testers for testing some Mac/Casio 8000 software, I am interested. I accidentally discarded the mail message before I jotted down the address... What's worse, my husband deleted his Info-Mac before I could catch him... Thanks... Alecia Devantier 34L4PCN at CMUVM.Bitnet ------------------------------ Date: 4 Mar 90 12:42 EST From: WMLBTAM%UCCCVM1.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu Subject: Context-specific "beep" sounds Date: 4 March 1990, 12:38:43 EST >From: WMLBTAM at UCCCVM1 To: INFO-MAC at SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU Subj: Context-specific "beep" sounds I'd like to know if/how anyone has implemented a context-specific beep sound for the action, "clicking outside a dialog box." All of the beep-changing programs I've seen use the same category for this as for any other basic alert beep; I've been told it's in the OS that way--has anyone written a patch specifically for that? Example of desired result is our old favorite, HAL: (User clicks outside modal dialog box) "I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that." Ted =============================================================================== | | |Theodore Allan Morris |231 Bethesda Avenue, ML# 574 | | |University of Cincinnati Med. Ctr. |Cincinnati, OH 45267-0574 |__|--- |Med. Ctr. Information & Communications|513-558-6046 W, 731-3451 H | |Information Research and Development |WMLBTAM@UCCCVM1 Bitnet, U1091 Go | ___ |======================================|AppleLink, MORRISTA@UCMCIC. Bearcats!|Call me up and I'll talk data to ya'! |UC.EDU Internet, WB8VNV NTS =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Mar 90 12:11:15 EST From: Ami Zakai <ZAK@brownvm.brown.edu> Subject: DA printing to DeskWriter under MF I have been running into problems printing to my DeskWriter from various DAs like Easy Envelope + and McSink. The problems range from the mac or printer locking up and needing a reset to various cdev/inits losing resources and the directory getting so mangeled that needed to reformat and restore from backup. I have tried on various configuration and the problem traces down to the DeskWriter driver v1.00 under MultiFinder 6.03 while printing from DAs (with or without DA handler). All testing was done with my SE/30 with most recent versions of software said to be comaptible with the DeskWriter. Any1 else had similar problems or found a way to work around it? --Zak ------------------------------ Date: 4 Mar 90 14:28 EST From: WMLBTAM%UCCCVM1.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu Subject: FDHD Troubles Date: 4 March 1990, 14:25:28 EST >From: WMLBTAM at UCCCVM1 To: INFO-MAC at SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU Subj: FDHD Troubles Is it just us, or are there others who have flaky FDHD drives? In our IIx, IIcx, and IIci machines (none over 15 mos. old) we're having a devil of a time getting them to format HD diskettes, even right out of the box or bulk- erased. (I know about the probx with previously-MS-DOS-formatted disks.) ANYBODY have an idea of what's going on? Ted =============================================================================== | | |Theodore Allan Morris |231 Bethesda Avenue, ML# 574 | | |University of Cincinnati Med. Ctr. |Cincinnati, OH 45267-0574 |__|--- |Med. Ctr. Information & Communications|513-558-6046 W, 731-3451 H | |Information Research and Development |WMLBTAM@UCCCVM1 Bitnet, U1091 Go | ___ |======================================|AppleLink, MORRISTA@UCMCIC. Bearcats!|Call me up and I'll talk data to ya'! |UC.EDU Internet, WB8VNV NTS =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 90 03:05:12 -0500 From: jdb@cwns4.ins.cwru.edu Subject: Font/DA catalog program needed I'm looking for any information on the existence/availability of a catalog program that can list multiple DA's and fonts inside suitcase files. I like to keep my fonts and DA's in a few large files instead of single suitcases but at catalog time this leads to zero information on the contents. Does anyone know of a program that will look inside the suitcase to find out the contents? Are there any programmers out there looking for a new project? For DA's it may be possible to catalog by reading the names of the individual DRVR resources. For fonts it would probably be a little more complicated to include the sizes. Please e-mail responses to jdb@po.cwru.edu and I'll summarize the voluminous results later. Thanks! -- Justin D. Bukowski | | Case Western Reserve University | You're only young once; | Cleveland, Ohio 44106 | But you can be immature forever. | Hell | | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 90 07:36:54 PST From: claris!drc@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Dennis Cohen) Subject: Info-Mac Digest V8 #39 In comp.sys.mac.digest you write: > I recently ran across a DA named Twelve-C tm which is a simulated >Hewlett Packard calculator (model 12C), which is the business calculator >that they produce. It is true to the actual calculator in just about all >of its functions...(I'm not able to check them all since I am unfamiliar >with most of the business functions). My question is...are there any other >DA's of their other models, more specifically the 11C or *28S*(the >scientific calculators). If so, where are they available? Are they >*freeware* or shareware or just too expensive? I haven't seen examples of either of those; however, you might look into purchasing a copy of "Calculator Construction Set" by Dubl-Click to make your own. > If is freeware or shareware, and someone can show me how, I would >gladly send in the Twelve-C tm DA to be archived. You can respond to me >directly to save the net some trouble and I can summarize it later. This comes up often, the 12-C DA is NOT freeware or shareware. It is a commercial product, formerly published by Dreams of the Phoenix. When DotP went under, the rights reverted to the author and he found another publisher. -- Dennis Cohen Claris Corp. **************************************************** Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed above are _MINE_! **************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 90 10:45:26 PLT From: Joshua Yeidel <YEIDEL%WSUVM1.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu> Subject: LCD Projection, etc. We use a Kodak Datashow HR/M (that is, Macintosh model) with fair success for PowerPoint. I haven't tried it with MacroMind Director, but animation might present some problems if the LCD's don't "track" (switch from full white to full black) fast enough. It partly depends on how demanding the animation is. The Kodak we use has a relatively small screen area (that is, the "original" size of the screen image on the pad is about the same as the SE screen). Therefore, even in a large hall with a large projector, you may be disappointed in the image size (maybe a little more than half the projected size of an 8.5x11" transparency). Typically, large screen video projection of computer screens is TERRIBLE (TV just doesn't have the resolution). Of course, if cost is not an object, you might try the audio-visual company SIGGRAPH hired for their last convention -- they had HDTV all over the place... ------------------------------ Date: Fri Feb 16 12:32:53 1990 From: Joel Bender <joel%memory.uucp@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu> Subject: Meander 1.0 A simple game from the archives of Joel Bender. Description The playing is an NxN square board with pieces that slide around, similar to the Boss-15 puzzle. Each piece connects two pairs of its sides: Top to left and bottom to right. Top to right and bottom to left. Top to bottom and right to left (called a "bridge"). When you start a new game, you specify the size of the board, the kind of game (2-person, person against the computer, and person against the computer advanced mode), and how many bridges (2 or 4). For play against the computer, the user is always the first player. When play begins, the "hole" is in the center of the board. Any set of pieces can be slid into the hole. On a 5x5 board, clicking the top center will slide the two pieces above the hole towards the hole. You'll get the picture... After the pieces slide, a meandering line f orms. The object of the game is to be the first player to connect any two sides of the board with this meandering line. Note that the corner pieces already connect two sides, so the meandering line must go through at least two pieces. In the case of the bridges, the line goes over or under and continues on to the next square. You can undo a move, but note that you will always undo a pair of moves. If you "goofed" and the computer won, selecting undo will still leave it your turn. One further restriction: To keep you from running a game indefinitely, you cannot make a move that is the direct inverse of the computers move. History This game was shown to me by my friend and boss Foster Schucker while I was a student at SUNY Fredonia. I believe that he got it from his friend and boss J. D. Eisenberg while they were at the University of Delaware, some where. J.D., if you're out there, send me a letter, will you? Last I heard you were working on Apple ]['s. The old version ran on an ADM3A te rminal with a graphics expansion card, connected with a high speed (2400bps) RS-232 line to a Burroughs B6810. Any ALGOL fans out there? You gotta love them 48bit stack machines... After "porting" it to the IBM-PC when it first came out, I rewrote it for the Mac, added the computer opponent, and (in a brief moment of inspiration) added bridges. That addition makes things much more difficult, as you will see. I have also mapped the game on a Rubik's Cube but couldn't figure out who won! Neat paths though... The future Version 1.1 will tell you who won (rather than just the beep you get now). Version 2.0 will be in color, show you the winning path, and play other people over a network. I have another game in the works called "Crossroads" which is based on a similar concept. If you have any other ideas, let me know! - Joel Bender joel@memory.uucp - - BAKA Computers, Inc. ...!batcomputer!memory!joel - - 200 Pleasant Grove Road joel%memory@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu - - Ithaca, NY 14850 607-257-2070 - [Archived as /info-mac/game/meander.hqx; 28K] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 09:53:32 EST From: gateh%conncoll.bitnet@forsythe.stanford.edu Subject: NetHack 3.0 patchlevel 6 for the Mac Here is NetHack version 3.0i patchlevel 6 as ported to the Mac by Johnny Lee and others. Gregg TeHennepe | Minicomputer Specialist gateh@conncoll.bitnet | Connecticut College, New London, CT [Archived as /info-mac/game/nethack-30p6-part1.hqx; 150K /info-mac/game/nethack-30p6-part2.hqx; 150K /info-mac/game/nethack-30p6-part3.hqx; 150K /info-mac/game/nethack-30p6-part4.hqx; 150K /info-mac/game/nethack-30p6-part5.hqx; 75K] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 90 11:07:38 EST From: Ted Charrette <charrett@erl.mit.edu> Subject: Online America Like many of you, I received an invitation to join Online America for one month FREE. Well, I tried Online in ?September? and it was OK, but I decided I didn't need the service (at least not for $5.95/mo + an hourly charge), and never used it again. Why then did I find a $5.95 charge on my Feburary VISA bill? I will call them today and find out. In the mean time, I suggest that all people who tried Online America, but declined their offer ********************************* CHECK YOUR VISA BILLS CAREFULLY. ********************************* - Sign me Livid in Lexington. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 1990 20:33:55 EST From: RICH@suhep.phy.syr.edu (Richard S. Holmes) Subject: RedRyder and MultiFinder Some time back, I guess I helped initiate a round of RedRyder/White Knight bashing by posting an inquiry about WK and its alternatives. In that note, I said RedRyder wouldn't work under Multifinder. I got a lot of varied opinions, but no one contradicted my complaint. But, since I'm writing this very note through RR 10.3 under MultiFinder, obviously I was wrong. This came to my attention due to a recent posting by Tom Coradeschi (tcora@PICA.ARMY.MIL). I don't know why it didn't seem to work once upon a time, but when I tried again tonight things seemed OK. At first. Then I noticed some screen updating problems when I use VAX EVE. Ah well -- nothing as insidious as the problems Zterm has with VT100 emulation (I think... if I'm not wrong again...) and nothing a REFRESH command won't fix. Maybe RR 10.3 works well enough under MF for my purposes. Certainly it doesn't fail utterly, as I originally said. Apologies to anyone I may have misled, and to Scott Watson and Freesoft. Incidentally, I STILL think the RR 10.3 manual is about the worst piece of documentation in the business. Rich Holmes ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Richard S. Holmes Phone: (315)443-3891 or Physics Department -2701 Syracuse University Bitnet: rich@suhep Syracuse, NY 13244 Internet: rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DISCLAIMER: I have no opinions. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 90 10:57:23 PLT From: Joshua Yeidel <YEIDEL%WSUVM1.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu> Subject: Shareware Fees (how to pay them) I have been in favor of a system like the royalty payment system used in the music business -- the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP) and a rival organization, BMI, sign up authors. Users of royalty material send a lump-sum check to the society with an itemized list, and the society redistributes the money (less operating expenses) to authors on some periodic basis (like quarterly). This kind of system would make it very mcuh easier to pay shareware fees in our environment (a state university), where it can cost as much as $35 just to write a check (not to mention the back-and-forth paperwork). I avoid using shareware today, because the effort involved in making the payment is so great. If I could make one lump-sum payment to a society, there are quite a few items I would use. By the way, I hear that ASCAP sends people around to bars to check the juke boxes and make sure that owners are paying the proper royalties. If that's true, it might be part of the model that a ShareWare Coop might want to *skip*. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 05:28 CST From: TOM HILLSON <A4RCS@ccvax.iastate.edu> Subject: ShowINIT source code package Enclosed is the complete package for the ShowInit source in ASM by Paul Mercer. I got the package of America Online, it has more information and examples than the basic source already in the archive. I am trying to write a cdev and this has helped me understand how to incorporate and use the ASM code to show my Icon on start up into my Think C source code. I hope this helps others, who have been wondering more about the source code and how to use it. Tom Hillson Iowa State University Mac Users Group A4RCS@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU [Archived as /info-mac/source/showinit.hqx; 17K] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 90 17:47:02 EST From: qemp@harvard.harvard.edu (group Qemp) Subject: Sound Manager I have been having enormous difficulty with the Sound Manager and wonder if anyone has some tips and/or source code in either Pascal or C describing how to use the Sound Manger in asynchronous mode to produce recorded sounds. I also need to use the WaveTableSynth to produce two simultaneous tones of various waveforms and different frequencies and intensities. Calls to SndDoCommand with various combinations of waveTableCmd, noteCmd, ampCmd, phaseCmd, freqCmd, etc., never produce an error result code, but often don't work. In particular, specifying the frequency in the low three bytes of param2, instead of a note value in the lowest byte, never works. Frustration has indeed set in. I would be greatly appreciate any information or sources. Unfortunately soon after I posted this message previously, our system went down. I fear I lost any replies. Please send to both addresses below. Thanks. psaeta@harvard.edu qemp@endor.harvard.edu Peter Saeta ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 90 13:05:36 EST From: JQUIGGIN%UMDD.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu Subject: Switchable power supplies I am interested in getting a CD-ROM drive, but I want to keep my system portble between the US and Australia. Are there any drives which will run on both 110 and 240 Volt power Best wishes John Quiggin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 90 23:45:38 EST From: pascal%altitude.UUCP@iro.umontreal.ca (Pascal Gosselin) Subject: TokenTalk confusion! To: Info-Mac@sumex-aim.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Token Ring Card for Mac Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.digest References: <9003030232.AA01915@sumex-aim.stanford.edu> In comp.sys.mac.digest you write: >In a July 1989 issue of LAN magazine, a news brief states that Apple >was going to announce a 4 MB Token Ring Card for the Macintosh (not Tokentalk). > I have yet to see any announcement of this card. Does anyone have any >information about this? Is it vapor? In the works? Or just a dream? >Thanks in advance for the help. You seem to be quite confused... TokenTalk is the name of the Appletalk PROTOCOL that was adapted to Toklen Ring. Apple's TokenTalk board is merely a NuBus card with a 68000 processor, 512K of RAM and a small INIT file that provides Appletalk services via Token Ring. A Macintosh II with a TokenTalk card can (with MacDFT) do 3270 terminal emulation (including multiple sessions) and SMB file transfer via the Apple File Exchange Utility (directly from network to Hard disk). The Apple TokenTalk card is a 4MB/sec (4 million BITS per second) implementation of Token Ring. IBM's newest cards also support a superset called 16MB Token Ring... Apple does not support 16MB Token Ring, you need to go thru a bridge (like a Novell file server with two Token Ring cards in it) to access 16MB Token Ring with Apple's TokenTalk cards.... Hope this helps... BTW, this card has been available for 6 months... -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pascal Gosselin | philmtl!altitude!pascal@uunet.uu.net | | Computer Connection Inc. | AppleLink: CDA0024 CIS: 72757,1570 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 90 18:11:22 EST From: SLCET-S <lab014@monmouth-emh2.army.mil> Subject: TOPS questions Greetings Netlanders, I am looking to network a collection of six MaxIIx's across our ethernet (also included are two LW II NTX's assumed to be connected to a Mac through Appletalk). Ideally (if feasible), these Mac's should also be networked to an existing collection of PCs and VAXs. I am considering TOPS and need your help. Questions for those who know: * What are your impressions of TOPS? (comparisons to other?) * How well does it really handle a mixed network? (Mac-PC) sharing Laser Printers? * How well does E-mail work? (I am told that TOPS will soon announce products to connect to VAX systems, comments?) * What are the good/bad points or comments on ease of use intuitiveness/user interface performance security network management sharing files/data able to work with all common software reliability (does it bomb, can recover, ..) Thanks for the help. I will summerize to the net. ************************************************************************* Chris Braun Internet: lab014@monmouth-emh2.army.mil 1LT, SC 26.1.0.60 ETDL AV 992-0473 Fort Monmouth, NJ 07753 Comm: (201) 532-0473 ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 90 13:53:33 EST From: "Jason D. Harry" <JHARRY@brownvm.brown.edu> Subject: Turning off video-card interrupts (an urgent question). How do you turn off the interrupts on the Apple video card?!?!? I have searched all my Mac literature to find out, but NO LUCK! I know I'm not supposed to do it, but I need to for about 1 second in an especially time-critical part of an experiment control program. I have looked in "Designing Cards and Drivers for Mac II", "Mac Family Hardware Reference", and "Inside Mac". Nothing. It MUST be as simple as toggling a bit at a particular memory address on the card. Can SOMEONE either tell me how to do it OR where to look for the complete story on the video card? Thanks a million! Jason Harry Division of Engineering Brown University jharry@brownvm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 90 11:02:52 CST From: Eric Huffman <eric@music.nwu.edu> Subject: where is Mouser? Hello All, I am looking for a program called "Mouser". It apparently reads Object Pascal source code (and THINK C code with a trick) and then provides "browsing" capabilities, i.e., lists all methods available to objects through inheritance, etc ... It may be on AppleLink, but I have no account, and others, who do, have not seen it. It also does not seem to be on ftp sites such as info-mac and apple.apple.com. If anyone has it ... could you post it? I have heard it is shareware. Big Thanks, Eric Huffman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 19:26:35 PST From: 6600pete%ucsbuxa@hub.ucsb.edu (GurgleKat [Pete Gontier]) Subject: window resize help! (from Info-Mac Digest V8 #29) > I have gotten a few sharware games that are sesigned for the MAC II and > I have an SE/30... the games work but they have dialog windows and > game windows that are either placed off of my screen (mac II screen is > bigger) or are to big for my screen. I have gone into the resources > with ResEdit but there are some dialog windows (mostly for finding files > to load) that are not reachable, IE I cannot find their resource. Neither > can I find the windows that I need to resize, in order to shrink them to my > screen... can anybody help me out with this?? I took my own "ought-to" advice and wrote an FKEY to take care of some of these problems. It centers windows. Free. Docs & source included. Have fun, but be careful. Pete Gontier | InterNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, BitNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa Editor, Macker | Online Macintosh Programming Journal; mail for subscription Hire this kid | Mac, DOS, C, Pascal, asm, excellent communication skills [Archived as /info-mac/fkey/center-windows.hqx; 7K] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 90 17:00:35 EDT From: Tim Waire <YI858C%GWUVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu> Subject: WindowShade/Rumors Fellow MacPeople: I have two questions, maybe three: 1. Recently, here at work we have downloaded WindowShade to test on an SE/30. However, a problem arises frequently using Excel. When one clicks the active windows title bar to have it disappear that works fine. When trying to restore the window by clicking again sometimes only parts of the window reappear. (in Excel sometimes just various cells reapear) Any clues as to what could be the problem? 2. Second question: Are network consist of approximately 20 Macs connected via PhoneNet boxes and utilizes TOPS for file transfer. We are currently in the process of purchasing 15 SE/30's to add to this network. Recently my boss has read of a new Apple product that will out-perform an SE/30 for less money. As a government agency purchasing Macintosh over IBM this would not look good if our purchase went through and then Apple would release a cheaper and better product. Anyone hear any similar rumors???!!?? 3. Third question: We are also in the process of connecting the above network to an existing IBM Novell network running on EtherNet. I would appreciate any suggestions in connecting our Macs. We do not have any file server for our existing network. Also we are prepared to connect each Macintosh individually via some type of EtherNet card. The existing Novell network uses WordPerfect Office as the primary means of network navigation. The only large requirements that need be met are to insure the Macintosh would be able to communicate via an SNA Gateway (already exist on the Novell network) to an IBM 3090. Is this possible?????? Currently we are using IRMA cards to emulate 3270 terminals. But we do not wish to buy 15 additional cards if connecting to the EtherNet will provide a better path. Thanx in advance. If there is sufficient interest I will summarize for the net. Timothy A. Waire, Jr. EOP - OMB yi858c@gwuvm sc159213@sparko.gwu.edu (I login here more than the above address) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 90 23:03 EST From: "Vincent Wan (I think?)" <V127KMM6@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: Word 4 & Adobe Type Manager Someone posted the following: Adobe Type Manager doesn't work well with Word 4.0 with non-laserwriter printers because choosing other printers causes fractional widths to be disabled. Adobe has upgraded ATM to fix this problem the upgrade is FREE just send in your ATM serial number. Adobe has also made ATM compatible with non adobe fonts. Vincent ------------------------------ End of Info-Mac Digest ******************************