Info-Mac-Request@SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (The Moderators) (03/20/90)
Info-Mac Digest Mon, 19 Mar 90 Volume 8 : Issue 59
Today's Topics:
Amax and System 6.0.4
Apple and their new warranty.
CD-ROMS (and Drives)
CDEV Troubles:DiskExpress II, Complete Undelete
enhancement request for postings
Hard disk security response summary
info on MPW wanted
Mac Zone
Program needed for consignment sale
Summery of replies on TOPS
variable line terminal emulator
Your Info-Mac Moderators are Bill Lipa, Lance Nakata, and Jon Pugh.
The Info-Mac archives are available (by using FTP, account anonymous,
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Please send articles and binaries to info-mac@sumex-aim.stanford.edu.
Send administrative mail to info-mac-request@sumex-aim.stanford.edu.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 90 17:16:56 EST
From: Jeff Meredith <meredith@erl.mit.edu>
Subject: Amax and System 6.0.4
I recently received mail concerning a system software problem with the
Amax emulator for the amiga and system 6.0.4. I didn't know the answer
but an Amiga/Mac emulation expert did so I asked him. His message follows
>From hobart@brg3.ldgo.columbia.edu Sat Mar 10 23:53:50 1990
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11 Mar 90 11:00 EST
To: meredith@erl.mit.edu
Cc: hobart@brg3.ldgo.columbia.edu
Subject: Amax question
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 90 11:00:43 EST
>From: hobart@brg3.ldgo.columbia.edu
Status: RO
Jeff - All that I can say is that I have run into the same problems with
v6.0.4 of the Mac OS. I have written to the software manufacturer, but
have not yet received a reply (or better yet - an update).
All that I can suggest is to use v6.0.3. I have had no problems with that.
Mike
Jeff Meredith
meredith@erl.mit.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 90 16:20 CST
From: <BPB9204%TAMSTAR.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Subject: Apple and their new warranty.
Let's hear it for Apple's new warranty policy.
BIG DEAL.
That's my first gut reaction. I just spent $335 to get the power supply
in my Mac Plus replaced. My mac is just shy of three years old, and it
finally went bad. Here's my experience in short:
At my dealer, $390 for a new power supply.
Apple changed its policy on old power supply. No more $244 credit for the
new one. UNLESS......
you buy 12 months of AppleCare. 12 mos. x $12 = $144 ( I took Calculus)
So I decided to -- at least I'll get the equivalent of $100 off.
I told the technician I was a student, he said he had two in college, and
that he would only charge me $15 for labor.
Out of all this it totalled $335. And I find out my monitor is bad. The
technician told me to wait a week and I'd get it fixed free from AppleCare.
Well, the button on my mouse is starting to jam sometimes, and I'm trying
to wear out my floppy so I can get a new one also.
All I can say is I'm going to milk Apple for everything I can. Also, if
anyone has problems with their computer, get the most inexpensive stuff
fixed first, buy the AppleCare stuff, and then get the expensive equipment
fixed. I learned the wrong way. I don't know if it would work, but I'd try
it.
One last comment: I've been really P.O.'d about apple and their warranty.
They KNEW mac plus ps's were bad, but they didn't take ONE STEP in helping to
correct the problem. Instead, they would rather make more money off their own
previous mistakes. I have no respect for anybody (or company) that treats
their customers like this. Apple can bend over and kiss my rear.
B. Burton
BPB9204@TAMSTAR
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 90 12:17:56 EST
From: delingma%THUNDER.LAKEHEADU.CA@forsythe.stanford.edu
Subject: CD-ROMS (and Drives)
I am considering purchasing a CD-ROM player for my Mac Plus. What suggestions
does the Net have as far as Which model to go with? (I am considering the
NEC-35 due to price). What interface (if any) would I have to purchase to make
it work with the Plus? how compatable is it and the driver software with IBM
CD-ROMS? (ie can I read disks that are out for the IBM as well as Mac disks?)
Thanks.
Dan Lingman
delingma@pooh.lakeheadu.ca
QUIT
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 90 11:22:22 EST
From: "Chris Khoury (Sari's Son)" <3XMQGAA%CMUVM.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Subject: CDEV Troubles:DiskExpress II, Complete Undelete
Hi, I just recently installed DiskExpress II 2.03 and now when I drag a do
cument or app (or anything else) to the trash, Complete Undelete gives me a dia
log box saying:"not enough room on this disk for a delete-log" I already have a
delete log installed and have plenty of room on my HD. I think the problem is
that when DE II optimizes my HD, it must rearrange my delete log around or some
thing. What can I do to fix the situation?
Also, are there any of the WhiteKnight 11 upgrade patches on Info-mac? I don't
see them in the directory.
Thanks.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Christopher Khoury |Bitnet: 3XMQGAA@CMUVM (Preferred) |
| Disclaimer: All opinions |Internet: skhoury@postcard.engin.umich.edu |
| are mine, not my dad's. |UUCP: hippo@bushido.uucp |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 90 17:36:52 PST
From: Joe Garvey <garvey@cmic>
Subject: enhancement request for postings
I'm the master archivist here at CMI. I store postings to the net off to tape.
Local newsgroup archivist pluck what they can out, and put it in use. Sometimes
that can't get to it all. So I store it for possible later retreival.
We try to put some descriptive line in our archive listings. However, the
postings to comp.binaries.mac make this very difficult. I know that things
like hypercard stacks and desk accessories are marked as such. But a few
descriptive words in the title would be extremely helpful (color icon editor,
personal information manager, game, anti-virus tool, etc).
For example, "SCSI saver" or "tool to park SCSI drive". I believe the later
will let the users here find a tool for parking their hard drives. How does
one save a SCSI? Do you have to be a lifeguard? :-)
Without this information, all the work you've gone to could be lost because
your posting can't be identified for what it is at a later date. The title
line is 80 characters long, use it, please.
PS. Not all posting have this problem, but a very large percentage ~50% do.
Any improvements greatfully appreciated. (I hope you'll share this with your
fellow moderators).
--
Joe Garvey UUCP: {apple,backbone}!versatc!mips!cmic!garvey
California Microwave Internet: garvey%cmic@mips.com
990 Almanor Ave HP Desk: garvey (cmic@mips.com) /hp1900/ux
Sunnyvale, Ca, 94086 800-831-3104 (outside CA)
408-720-6439 (let it ring) 800-824-7814 (inside CA)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 90 17:09 EST
From: PAHA@db1.cc.rochester.edu
Subject: Hard disk security response summary
A while back I posted the following request to the net.
>To Campus Macintosh Lab Managers:
>
>I am evaluating hard disk security packages to protect Macintosh hard disks
>in public access labs. My concerns are:
>
> * Protecting the disks from virus infection
>
> * Protecting the installed system and software from corruption
>
> * Preventing unauthorized users from storing data files
>
> * Protecting applications from being illegally copied onto floppies
>
>I have seen a number of packages here on the net: SecurInit, GuardDog,
>MacPassword, VolumeImage. None of these seemed to do all that I want,
>although I am open to being persuaded otherwise.
>
>I am interested in hearing the real-world experiences of lab managers with
>these or other products. I'm sure that this is a commom problem, and I
>hope that someone has found a reasonable solution.
Here is a summary of the responses I received:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>From: ajq@mace.cc.purdue.EDU
Virus protection: We have Vaccine 1.0.1 and Gatekeeper Aid 1.01 installed
on each computer's hard disk (all our Macs are HD-equipped). Additionally,
we have a dual-floppy SE at the lab's entrance dedicated to virus checking.
All users are asked to check their disks before using a Mac.
Although Disinfectant 1.6 is the program I personally prefer, we use Virus
Rx 1.6 in the lab. Virus Rx does catch all the current viruses, but it
makes no attempt to repair infected disks. If something were to go wrong
during virus removal that damaged someone's important data, then we'd
have a serious problem. Virus Rx avoids that issue.
Protecting System software, other software, and preventing users from
storing data files: Well, we have an after-the-fact kind of approach to
this. We have a program (written in-house) that scans a Mac hard disk,
compares it to a "master" copy on a file server, and then makes the
hard disk match the master. It replaces corrupted or modified files
(thereby nabbing virus infections, too) and deletes anything that
doesn't belong there.
Preventing piracy: Again, we use software developed on-campus. Our
software puts one "calling" file on the disk for each program we're
protecting. The calling file has the same icon as the real application,
and when you double-click it, it launches the real application same
as if you'd double-clicked the real thing.
Then, the "real thing" icon is made invisible. Our hard disk cleanup
program (described above) handles making the appropriate icons invisible.
This is an effective deterrent, but not foolproof. Any Mac enthusiast
that knows ResEdit can make the icons visible and copy them. But there
is no foolproof method ... We feel that we provide reasonable protection
to the commercial software we have.
Hope this gives you some ideas.
-John
-=-
John O'Malley / Macintosh / Purdue University / (317)
ajq@mace.cc.purdue.edu / Specialist / Computing Center / 494-1787
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>From: tj@CS.UCLA.EDU
I am becoming convinced that it is imposible. I administer a lab here in
the UCLA CS Department that consists of 40 Mac IIXs-=each w/ 80Mg internal
hard drives, ethernet cards, 5Mg RAM, etc...... Our biggest concerns have
been virus problems, software piracy, system folder corruption (people love
to put the system into an 'Empty Folder', so the machine won't startup the
next time it is rebooted.
I have tried most of the commercial and PD programs, but I haven't found
anyhting that actually provides any sort of real security. FileGuard
looked great in the ads, but it didn't work worth a damn. many of the
features simply didn't work, or were easy to get around. Same with
SecureInit. I found I could remove most Application protection schemes in
about 5 or 10 minutes with ResEdit. All anybody seems to do is modify the
jump table (code 0 resource) and add an additional resource of their own.
Very easy to defeat. I am beta testing a new program by Dean Yu et al. at
the University of Michigan. it also uses the jump table modifications, but
it is a little smater than most. It's big advantage is that it allows
application accounting on the machin es-=if you are only licensed to run
say 20 copies of Think C, you can put copies on all 40 machines, but only
the first 20 people who try it will be able to run it. (Oops-=-almost
forgot to say that the name of it is Launch! Break.)
Our solution to stopping piracy and viral problems was to physically lock
up the floppy disk drives. We tried just pulling the cables out, but there
is some quirk within SilverLining (which we use on all of our hard drives)
It can't access certain volum e partitions when the floppy is disconnected.
Go figure. So I drilled a hole through the floppy case and put a 2" long
brass bolt through it. the only way someone will get a floppy in is if
they fold it in half. Of course this makes administration tha t much
harder-=we carry around a SCSI drive to use for maintainance purposes.
To prevent System Folder damage, we lock the system folder by screwing
around with the AppleShare bits in the disk directory (using Fedit).
Definately not a method for the faint of heart. The Finder doesn't
distinguish between shared and local volumes when it checks the
permissions, so we can grey out a folder and give people the good old "you
don't have access privileges to that folder" message. Kind of clumsy, but
it does work.
We lock our Application partitions (using SilverLining). We can't lock the
System Partition since the Chooser won't run off of a locked System Disk
(hence the method above).
Tom Johnson
tj@cs.ucla.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>From: csr@ubvax.cc.rochester.EDU
Take a look at Magna's Empower I and II. Real nice. Tell them I sent you.
Magna, Inc.
2540 N. First Street, Suite 302
San Jose, CA 95131
(408)433-5467
Regards,
-=
Chris Ranch
Ungermann-Bass, Inc
(408)562-7957 csr@ubvax.ub.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>From: PV9Y@vax5.cit.cornell.EDU
This wouldn't solve all of your problems, but I wrote a HyperCard Finder
replacement which is in use at Cornell University in all the public computer
rooms. It is designed to protect the software on Macs with hard disks
connected to public (15 cent charge) laser printers. It prevents almost all
illegal entry and makes the printing process as streamlined as possible for
users who don't know how to laser print (an unfortunate majority). I created
that version specifically for Cornell, but my licensing agreement allows me
to market it outside of Cornell in a slightly different, non-Cornell specific
form. Assuming that you have a certain number of site-licensed applications
on your hard disks, my program could be modified to work with Macs that are
not dedicated to printing. (the other reason for my interface was that we
had to keep Word 3 and Word 4 around at the same time - with the corresponding
confusion when someone saved in the wrong format).
Adam Engst - pv9y@vax.cit.cornell.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>From: watermaa@tramp.Colorado.EDU
I recently got a program called LOCKDISK from ftp 36.33.0.6 and it allows hard
drives to be locked like a floppy disk. This is great because a locked disk of
course prevents people from saving or changing files on the disk. A locked disk
also prevents viruses from attacking it. It can be found in the CDEV directory
(I think - otherwise, INIT).
However, it does not solve the copy situation.
Kent Leung
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>From: DMONEY@AUDUCVAX.BITNET
This is what we've done: We have made all applications invisible on
the desktop. There is only one folder, the System Folder, and it is invisible.
The only file visible on the desktop is a hypercard stack called "Applications
Menu". On startup, the "Applications Menu" comes up, and users double-click on
the application of their choice. Or they can go to the Finder and use their
own software. And we've removed the Control Panel from the DA Menu.
"Applications Menu" is a front-end menu interface that I put together
for our labs. Campus users seem to have adapted to using it, but there are
still problems. We allow users to temporarily copy their software to our hard
drives, but they never remove it afterwards. Or, after finishing, they just
throw everything away, including the "Applications Menu". And, of course, hack-
ers sneak in with ResEdit, MacTools, and Font/DA Mover, and customize our
machines to their liking. We've just accepted that we have to clean up after
the users as often as possible, but I would like to hear other suggestions as
you get them. Like you, I can't believe that there isn't a workable solution.
Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments.
Dean R. Money
User Services Specialist
Academic Computing Services
Auburn University, AL
dmoney@auducvax
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>From: X098MF@TAMVM1.BITNET
I believe that I have found a solution in a software package called AME
(Access Managemed Environment).
According to the add in the Feb. 13th issue of MacWEEK, AME is a set of a
DA and an INIT that once installed, will ensure that the user can only gain
access to what the network manager wants him to access. This is accomplished
by creating a set of users and groups (similar to AppleShare). If this were
to installed on Texas A&M Macs, we could train the student users to enter the
password "STUDENT" which would allow them READ ONLY access to the applications
only, the system folder and others would be locked off from them.
Another concern that lab managers have is students making illegal copies of the
software contained on the hard drives. Apple gives us the ability to set a
No Copy bit for the applications which works in most cases when the user uses
the Finder for copying files. However, using MacTools or DiskTop defeats this
No Copy scheme. This includes setting Copy Protection through the AppleShare
Administrator. AME protection will defeat MacTools and DiskTop, preventing
the user from pirating our files.
Other attributes about AME are better Virus Protection, Logging of Software and
Hardware activities, the preventing launching of unauthorized applications
(such as MacTools), and the prevention of bypassing AME by booting from a
floppy disk.
AME is published by Casady & Greene, Inc; PO Box 223779; Carmel, CA 93922;
408/624-8716.
-=-Michael Farlow x098mf@tamvm1.bitnet
MicroComputer Specialist (Macintosh) x098mf@tamvm1.tamu.edu
Computer Services Center
Texas A&M University (409)845-1365 (voice)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The responses mentioned two commercial products: Empower I and II from
Magna, and AME from Casady & Greene. I also just got a flyer from asd
software, inc, about their product, FileGuard. I'm going to try to get
evaluation copies of these three products.
The responses also mentioned several creative system hacks to help this
situation.
My evalutaion is just beginning, so I have no conclusions yet-just a lot
more information.
Thank you to all who responded!
Phil Harriman
University of Rochester Computing Center
paha@db2.cc.rochester.edu (Internet)
paha@uordbv (BITNET)
(716) 275-2811
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 90 18:09:32 GMT
From: v132gcnx@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: info on MPW wanted
Just one quick question:
I would like to start programming the Mac and writing applications, but
all I have is an old version of Microsoft Fortran, which I don't like at all.
How do you go about getting the Macintosh Programmers Workshop? It doesn't
cost over $500, does it?
John Feinberg
S.U.N.Y. at Buffalo
------------------------------
Date: Sun 18 Mar 90 15:08:17-EST
From: C. David Young <DYOUNG@a.isi.edu>
Subject: Mac Zone
After reading the horror stories people have been reporting about
getting hard disks by mail order, I thought I would provide some balance
by reporting a good experience. After doing some comparison shopping by
looking through the magazines and talking to some of the mail order
dealers by phone, I settled on Mac Zone for the following reasons:
- I liked their service that allowed me to pick the exact drive
mechanism and size. They then build it into a case, test it, format it,
and add the latest system software. I picked a Quantum (40mb) because I
have the impression that this drive is the most reliable.
- Although price was certainly a factor, other things were more
important. I could have gotten pretty much the same drive from a
small dealer (at least his ad was tiny) for a little less, but I went
with Mac Zone because they are big (at least their multi-page ads give
me that impression) and they have a great return policy (30 day
money-back guarantee on hardware).
- They also had all the software packages that I wanted at the lowest
prices, so it was convenient to order everything at once.
Well, I called about 11 PM on a Tuesday night and got my order Thursday
morning for a shipping charge of only $3! I plugged it in to my SCSI
port, powered it up, and started immediately copying all of my floppy
applications to it. I has worked without a hitch ever since. The case
looks real nice and fits right under my Mac+. It has two recessed LEDs
(I could not even see them until after I powered up) for power and disk
access. I am very pleased. About the only thing lacking was that they
provided no public domain or shareware software that some other dealers
throw on their hard disks. Since I have access to Internet, this was no
great loss to me.
I have no affiliation with Mac Zone other than being a satisfied
customer.
David Young
-------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 90 18:39:20 EST
From: Eric_Meininger@ub.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Program needed for consignment sale
I am looking for a Macintosh application that will keep track of items on
consignment. We run a book exchange as a student service and are trying to
increase our efficiency.
The best possible setup would:
a. keep track of books which a person leaves with us, by name, contract number,
or whatever, as well as the price they set.
b. create a receipt and total the cost of books sold, at the same time marking
the sale of those books on the seller's record.
c. total the amount of books sold for each individual seller, and possibly
interface with a printer to print checks.
Theoretically, I don't think this would be impossible, but perhaps a little
circumstance specific. Are there any public domain or shareware (preferably)
or even commercial programs which would accomplish this task? Perhaps a
HyperCard stack which does something similar which I could modify?
Thanks in advance for any responses. Please send any replies to me. If there
is an interest, I will summarize to the net.
Eric Meininger
Filing/Accounting Coordinator / Finance Officer
The Student Book Exchange, The University of Michigan
Internet: Eric_Meininger@ub.cc.umich.edu
Bitnet : USER6SLN@UMICHUB
Disclaimer: The above represents the views and opinions of the
Student Book Exchange, Textbooks for Less.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 90 17:20:31 EST
From: SLCET-S <lab014@monmouth-emh2.army.mil>
Subject: Summery of replies on TOPS
Summery of responses to questions on TOPS
Many thanks to those who replied,
The real, bottom line question I posted to the net was "Is
TOPS the solution to my networking problems?" I have a
collection of 6 MacIIs, 2 LW IINTXs, a bunch of PCs, and
some VAXes which I would like to tie together. The primary
concern I have is ease of use on the Mac side (where most of
the real work is done & many of the beginning users).
I received 6 replies (and several follow up messages). I
also obtained the TOPS product literature as well as a book
"TOPS the IBM/Mac Connection" (Cobb and Jost, Windcrest
1990). The responses varied from very positive (3 replies),
neutral (2 replies), and don't buy (1 reply).
Based upon the information I collected (and of course
monitoring the net) I will recommend to purchase TOPS for
our network. The good points about TOPS:
Easy to install/maintain
Easy to use - filesharing and printing/spooling done well
Good user interface
Connects Mac <-> PCs & translates data files (i.e. Word to
Wordstar)
Can run without a dedicated server
Complete mail services - not yet Internet/VAX compatiable
The bad points (mentioned by the replies):
Sometimes very slow in accessing/updating a file from
another machine - this is problem with Appletalk being
slow and/or the server (owner of the file) being tied
up with CPU intensive tasks.
Cost per unit is high - especially considering
Apple will provide some sort of networking capability
in System V 7.0. Cost is about $189/Mac for 3.0
Network Bundle (file/print sharing,spooling, mail)
from the mail order houses. Educational cost is
$156/Mac or $599/10 Macs.
Memory hog on IMB PCs - all current networking
software seem to have this problem with IBMs. Often
leaves too little memory to run applications like
Wordstar or DBIII. Some can make use of extended
memory to work around this limitation.
Other:
TOPS is AFP compatiable - fixed as of version 3.0
One reply reported bombs, 3 replies reported no problems at all
Overall my feeling is that TOPS is good for
smaller/not-tranfer-intensive networks (one reply mentioned
not using TOPS due to speed limitations, and was considering
NFS). For the type of office work and file sharing (mostly
text and some graphics) I anticipate on the network and with
ethernet links, I expect TOPS will be quite usuable. I
really don't want to wait for Apple to solve this networking
issue (I expect the usual Apple goofups initially), although
I am concerned about future compatiablity (TOPS says no
problem).
Other network canadates seem to not cut the mustard: PSN -
there was a recent network message saying it was less than
best, Novell - great for PCs but not so good at Macs &
PC<->Mac transfers, also needs a dedicated server.
These opinions are mine alone and do not represent the U.S. Government
*************************************************************************
Chris Braun Internet: lab014@monmouth-emh2.army.mil
1LT, SC 26.1.0.60
ETDL AV 992-0473
Fort Monmouth, NJ 07753 Comm: (201) 532-0473
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 90 22:17:29 CST
From: Gary Morris <avocado!garym@labrea.stanford.edu>
Subject: variable line terminal emulator
Can anyone tell me where I might find a terminal emulator that supports
more than 24x80. We have Macs with large screens and would like to be
able to use an emulator that can support windows with more than 24 lines,
preferably up to 50 or more. Any pointers would be welcome, it doesn't
matter whether it is public domain, commercial or goverment, all info
would be appreciated. Public domain programs with source available would
work since we could modify it. Please reply by email to
my account garym@sugar.hackercorp.com.
Thanks in advance,
--GaryM
--
Gary Morris Internet: garym@sugar.hackercorp.com
Lockheed, Houston, Texas UUCP: uunet!sugar!garym
Space Station Freedom Project Phone: +1-713-283-5195
[Moderator's Note: Once again VersaTerm & VersaTerm PRO get recommended.
-- Jon]
------------------------------
End of Info-Mac Digest
******************************