info-mac-request@SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (The Moderators) (02/05/91)
Info-Mac Digest Mon, 4 Feb 91 Volume 9 : Issue 31 Today's Topics: [*] CrossMaster 1.0-Demo [*] Meldown-AfterDark Module Version 1.1 [*] source/c/drvr-install-1-91.hqx (Driver Installation code) [*] util/lharc-041.hqx Alias? Colour SE/30 Cursor Control (2 msgs) Digitize sound on IIsi Graphics Translations - Specifically .PCX to Mac Compatible H-P DeskWriter refill HP LaserJet IIID with AppleShare (Info-Mac Digest V9 #27) InsideMac DA Looking for an application MacX Pascal Introductory Book Porta-Drive and Audio CDs Power off/on dilema price for 68882 FPU math co-processor alone Reasons to be Cheerful (Part 4) shareware fees slots Spoofing Mac Floppies TCL MIDI? uw 4.2? why is the SI slower than th II? Word Weirdness ZMac Your Info-Mac Moderators are Bill Lipa, Lance Nakata, and Jon Pugh. The Info-Mac archives are available (by using FTP, account anonymous, any password) in the info-mac directory on sumex-aim.stanford.edu [36.44.0.6]. Help files are in /info-mac/help. Indices are in /info-mac/help/recent-files.txt and /info-mac/help/all-files.txt. Please send articles and binaries to info-mac@sumex-aim.stanford.edu. Send administrative mail to info-mac-request@sumex-aim.stanford.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 19:48:41 CST From: steven@pollux.math.iastate.edu Subject: [*] CrossMaster 1.0-Demo C R O S S M A S T E R 1 . 0 - D E M O ======================================= CrossMaster 1.0-Demo is the demonstration version of the commercial program CrossMaster 1.0. This is a public domain program designed to promote CrossMaster 1.0 and to allow users to become familiar with the commercial version before commiting to purchase it. Please use this program as much as you like and share it with whomever you wish. This demonstration program functions almost identically to the commercial program. The major difference is that a few of the features of the commercial version have been either removed or downgraded. These include saving, printing, and automatically generating crossword puzzles. [Archived as /info-mac/demo/crossmaster-10.hqx; 146K] ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jan 91 20:40:14 EST (Thu) From: joseph@marvin.cooper.edu (Joseph Giannuzzi) Subject: [*] Meldown-AfterDark Module Version 1.1 I recently submitted a file entitled Meltdown-AfterDark Module for posting in the info-mac archive. However, I noticed one bug and made one addition since then. The following is the new Meltdown-AfterDark Module version 1.1. Changes to 1.1 from 1.0 Corrected stupid programmerUs error which caused the Cascade and Pinwheel melts to melt to white instead of black (not much use as a screen saver) Added the Colorfill button to allow users to select between a melt to black and a rainbow melt in the Cascade, Avalanche, and Pinwheel melts. (previously always used the rainbow melt) [Archived as /info-mac/util/after-dark-meltdown.hqx; 10K] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 23:17:30 -0500 From: Pete Resnick <resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu> Subject: [*] source/c/drvr-install-1-91.hqx (Driver Installation code) This is the source for installing and removing RAM based device drivers in the driver table. Use it to your heart's content; I only ask that you give me appropriate credit. If there are any questions, feel free to write. Updates to these files will be sent to info-mac at sumex, rascal, and comp.sources.mac. Keep an eye out there. Pete Resnick Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC [Archived as /info-mac/source/c/drvr-install.hqx; 12K] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 91 09:27 CST From: "Ken R. Lunde" <KLUNDE@vms.macc.wisc.edu> Subject: [*] util/lharc-041.hqx This file contains LHarc 0.41 for the Macintosh. It is yet another compression/decompression program. It is unique in that it is compatible with MS-DOS LHarc V1.13d, LHarc UNIX, and even LHarc implemeted on other platforms. This makes it very useful for transferring large files from one type of computer to another. Its manual is in Japanese, but the menus are in English, and are self-explanatory. LHarc 0.41 was written by Kazuaki Ishizaki in Japan. His email address is located at the end of the README document. Stuffed and binhexed. Enjoy! Ken R. Lunde klunde@vms.macc.wisc.edu [Archived as /info-mac/util/lharc-041.hqx; 41K] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 1991 08:14:25 EST From: "Keith E Gatling [315] 443-3285" <RSKEG%SUVM.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu> Subject: Alias? I'm looking for a PD program called Alias, which basically does exactly what its name implies. Do we have this in the archives somewhere, or does anyone else know where I can find it? keg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 91 10:49:21 GMT From: Michael Everson <MEVERC95%IRLEARN.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu> Subject: Colour SE/30 Does anyone know why no one makes a 9" colour internal screen for the SE/30? Before anyone jumps at me saying "Why would you want something so SMALL", the answer is "Because it would be fun to play Leprechaun without a huge TV cluttering up my already cluttered desk." Michael Everson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 1991 09:35:53 PST From: Russell Rogers <rogers@parc.xerox.com> Subject: Cursor Control Without much effort I can think of at least three instances where it would not be a "bad idea" for an application to position the mouse cursor. 1). A program like Timbuktu (remote access). 2). A Tutorial program(or non-interactive demonstration). 3). An interface test program. This might include record and playback mechanisms. The restriction is in the interface guidelines. And you can't do it with a simple ROM interface call. But give the programmer the benefit of the doubt before you give sermon about the "Apple Human Interface Guidelines!!!". Don't let the guidelines blind you into saying "never". -Russ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 1991 09:37:07 PST From: Carl_A._Steinhilber.osbu_south@xerox.com Subject: Cursor Control Alexander, >I was quite shocked to read about recent requests to modify the >position of the pointer from within an application. This is a violation >of the Apple Human Interface Guidelines!!! Thanks for your response. I think everyone who responded to my original query made the same point. And it is valid. However, the Apple HI Guidelines can only be violated if one is building an Apple Human Interface. We were (well... I guess that should read: ARE) actually prototyping an interface that is not destined to run on the Macintosh... using the Macintosh platform only to expedite our work. So you were absolutely right... I would not recommend anyone produce a Mac application that takes control of the cursor away from the user. But, sometimes, it just becomes necessary to do things that aren't recommended. Hope that smooths everything over. By the way... we were successful in writing the XCMD to set the location of the cursor. Originally written for SuperCard 1.5, I suppose it would be usable in HyperCard, Plus and Director (or the code could be converted, of course, for App use)... and, if anyone's interested, would be happy to see what I could do about getting it to you. While I would also be one of the netters who STRONGLY recommends against using this process to control of the cursor independent of user commands, one use that I can immediately think of for the XCMD is to control the cursor in a self-running demo (to SIMULATE user control). It's not exactly what WE used it for... but, seeing as how Apple does it themselves in the Macintosh Tours... I don't think it would violate the guidelines. Carl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 18:57:39 GMT From: s57783@zeus.usq.edu.au (chapman alan) Subject: Digitize sound on IIsi Hi Netters, Does anyone know of any software that allows recording sound on the Mac IIsi. I know of the facility within the sound cdev, but I'm talking *REAL* sound (like my collection of Stevie Nicks CDs), not just beeps. The December '90 issue of MacUser mentioned a Hypercard stack called Audio Palette that "comes with Hypercard 2.0". It wasn't with the 5 disk set that I got from my local Apple dealer. Please mail replies to s57783@zeus.usq.edu.au Thanx in advance... Alan Chapman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 1991 11:00:43 PST From: AUGUST@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov (Richard B. August) Subject: Graphics Translations - Specifically .PCX to Mac Compatible I have a problem similar to Jim Bethin, the existence of graphics in an IBM format which I would prefer *not* to re-draw (complex). Is there a s/w package which can translate .PCX (readable by IBM Ventura Publisher) to even a bit-map version that is Mac readable. Thanks in advance. Richard B. August august@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 09:33 EDT From: "MICHAEL J. LONGO" <LONGO@mail.physics.lsa.umich.edu> Subject: H-P DeskWriter refill Dear Moderators: A long time ago there was a posting about refilling the cartridges for H-P DeskWriter printers. Now that I have one I am interested in how to do it. I find I have to replace it about every 3 weeks. Otherwise I am very happy with it. Could someone repost that info or their own technique? --M. Longo, University of Michigan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 1991 11:01-EST From: Tom.Lane@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: HP LaserJet IIID with AppleShare (Info-Mac Digest V9 #27) Nancy, Assuming you buy the HP PostScript cartridge with the IIID, you have no problem: the IIID with PS and Appletalk is indistinguishable >From an Apple Laserwriter, so you just tell the spooler that's what you have, and away you go. The only fly in the ointment is that the spooler doesn't know anything about double-sided printing or anything like that. I don't know if you expected to be able to control that at the spooler level, but you probably can't. HP will give you a modified version of the standard Laserwriter printer driver, which will enable users to select double-sided printing from the Print dialog box. Note that the PS cartridge requires extra RAM; to support double sided printing I think you need 5Mb total RAM in the printer. I'd suggest buying the extra printer memory from Pacific Data or South Coast Electronics, as HP charges an arm and a leg for memory. (But under no circumstances should you buy Pacific Data's clone-PostScript cartridge; the fact that it doesn't support double sided printing is the least of its problems.) -- tom lane Internet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu UUCP: <your favorite internet/arpanet gateway>!cs.cmu.edu!tgl BITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@cmuccvma CompuServe: >internet:tgl@cs.cmu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 12:53:16 EST From: wang@pennmess.physics.upenn.edu ( Huangxin Wang) Subject: InsideMac DA Does anyone know where is the author of the InsideMac DA (v1.2 in sumex archive)? I sent him the shareware fee but he is now longer in the address listed in the DA. I am also eager to see the next version out. This is a real great utility everyone wants to program the Mac should have. If the author no longer support it, has anyone compile his own version for the news subroutines in the new ROM? (This DA allow you to easily add in your own stuff). Huangxin Wang, University of Pennsylvania ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 15:12:58 PST From: yecho@silla.sait.co.kr ( Cho Yong Eun ) Subject: Looking for an application Hello. Does anybody know if there is a Macintosh application program used in a jewelry store? I need a program with following functions: - can store/retrive images and other information of jewels. - can capture images from video or scanner. (video may be preferred) - can change the design of jewels. If anyone knows one, please inform me. Also, information for the Macintosh utilities suitable for developing this application would be appreciated. Yong Cho yecho@silla.sait.co.kr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 11:04:43 EST From: jbotz%MHC.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu Subject: MacX What is MacX, and where can I get it? TIA, Jurgen ___________________________________________________________________________ Jurgen Botz | Internet: JBotz@MHC.bitnet ..or.. Academic Computing | JBotz%MHC.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu Mount Holyoke College | Compu$erve: 70531,600 (rarely) South Hadley, MA, USA | Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 13:36 EST From: Andrew Lewis <LEWIS%ITHACA.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu> Subject: Pascal Introductory Book About a week ago, I posted that there was to my knowledge no "single stellar volume" for programmers who know Pascal and want to program the Mac. I am mistaken! There is. It's called "Macintosh Pascal Programming" (or some permutation of those three words), written by Cartwright and Reed, who are the same guys that wrote the Macintosh Programming Primer for C programers. This new book uses THINK Pascal (not sure if it was version 2 or 3 but probably the latter) and ResEdit 2.x examples. It covers the basics, seems to correspond roughly to the subject material in volume I of the C series. And just as in the Primer, the authors recommend buying *all* volumes of Inside Macintosh. Personally, I think that volume III is at best useful as a mousepad, and would recommend buying the X-ref instead as it has nearly all of the info of volume III that is not duplicated elsewhere, aside from BNDL-FREK-ICN# stuff and some 128K/512K hardware information. The former is presumably covered in "Macintosh Pascal Programming", the latter is not really needed by most software types. If your local bookstore doesn't have it, it was only published in December 1990. Published by Addison-Wesley (just like the Primer). About $24. --Andrew Lewis Bitnet: LEWIS@ITHACA "Bart" Disclaimer: You're on your own, man! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 1991 09:13:44 PST From: Carl_A._Steinhilber.osbu_south@xerox.com Subject: Porta-Drive and Audio CDs Stan, >I just bought the CD-Technology PortaDrive. It works just fine with >"computer" CDs like Cosmic Osmo, but it won't play audio CDs with >the Hypercard driver "playCD" or the desk accessory "MusicBox" I had no trouble playing audio CDs on my Porta-Drive. At home, I had it connected to my stereo (thru the rear RCA jacks), with no problem... and at work, I connected a pair of amplified personal speakers (as well as a set of headphones) to the headphone jack, with no problem as well. If you were just having these symptoms with "playCD", I'd say it was Hypercard, but since you're experiencing problems with BOTH the Hypercard stack and the DA (which, by the way, I haven't seen)... you may, indeed, have a glitch in the audio track decoder. I would return the drive. Carl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 1991 05:31:54 PST From: KRK.WBST102A@xerox.com Subject: Power off/on dilema We have the following system: Mac II si w/ 13" Hi Res RGB monitor Apple personal LaserWriter NT Datacopy 730GS Scanner We use this equipment at least every other day, usually once per day. My question is, from a reliability/life perspective (not a power consumption perspective), should we be powering some/all of the components off after each use or are we better off leaving them on? Thanks, in advance, for the advice. - Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 91 11:13:43 CST From: Marshall Carroll <NU163467@vm1.nodak.edu> Subject: price for 68882 FPU math co-processor alone Thanks to everyone for the NuBus help. I'm curious if the 68882 FPU math co-processor (for a MacIIsi) can be purchased all by itself? If so, how much and by whom? Thanks, Marshall Carroll Internet: NU163467@VM1.NODAK.EDU BITNET: NU163467@NDSUVM1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 10:44:02 CST From: knight@swfmc1.sinet.slb.com (Francis Knight SIEMUK ) Subject: Reasons to be Cheerful (Part 4) Hi All, Two little snippets from recent advertisements, which might cheer up those who missed them: 1 Zortech is working on a Mac C++. Their latest Byte ad said ring for details. I did. "It's under development." Their PC C++ always gets rave reviews, and I was impressed when I bought it. I bet it'll give the current Mac compilers a good run for their money! 2 HP DeskWriter ink cartridges now come emblazoned with a small pink flash "New Ink!" Stating the obvious a little? Anyway, you need to intercept an ad for true enlightenment, as the leaflet contained within is mute on the subject. "Hewlett-Packard inkjet technology now gives you non-smear, water-resistant ink....." Judging from Digest traffic when the printer was first introduced, this will overcome the major gripe against the product, and please quite a few people, me included. Regards, Francis K =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Francis H Knight | knight@swfmc1.sinet.slb.com Schlumberger Industries | Felixstowe, UK | | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 08:53 EST From: ELIOT@cs.umass.edu Subject: shareware fees Michael Everson writes: >In response to Neil Cordwell's query regarding paying for shareware when >this involves expensive cheque charges, I offer a few suggestions. It >would be nice to hear what sharewaremongers (hem) have to say about them. >Alternative Ways of Paying your Shareware Fees >===== >1. You could shop around for better prices at different banks. This is a good idea. Also look into "international postal money orders". I have recieved these from Australia and Japan. They can be cashed at a bank or at a U.S. post office. I don't know how much they cost unfortunately. >2. You could pray that the U.S. gets wise to the notion of EuroCheques. This is the kind of thing that the GANTT talks are about. News about GANTT is considered to be the most boring thing in the world. This is a small example of how it may affect people directly. >3. You could send cash in francs plus 10% and let the mongers take it to > their own banks. Send a nice note explaining why. Most people are > reasonable and many Americans never get further than Kansas and haven't > seen foreign scrip before. (I have nothing against Kansas.) *** DO NOT DO THIS!!! *** American banks are just as greedy as European banks. My bank will charge me $15.00 and take three weeks to collect on a European cheque. If I recieved a European cheque worth U.S. $27.50, and sent a copy of my game (Empire Builder) back I would lose money. ($15 bank charge, $5 or more for the disk and zerox copy of the manual plus $5 for overseas air mail.) Canadian checks are handled differently. My bank does not charge a specific surcharge on them. In fact one person wrote a canadian check specifically marked as being $25 in U.S. funds. My bank accepted this with no problems. (Apparently, this was only a couple of days ago.) I don't know if there are any other countries for which this would be possible. I also do not recommend sending cash for the obvious reasons. (Although someone in Paris did send me cash.) Two more suggestions. In cases where you are requesting that something be sent back to you (a disk with the latest version or printed manual) you should add money for postage or else expect a long delay. I can ship a copy of my disk and manual just about anywhere in the world for about 50 cents more than it will be inside the U.S. if I use "third class surface mail". This takes 4-6 weeks for delivery. Overseas air mail delivery generally runs about 4-5 dollars. So adding $5.00 and requesting air mail should ensure a much faster response. Finally, shareware (et. al) authors should look into getting credit card mechant accounts. I have not done this, but I am looking into it. Big banks charge too much, but I have found a small local bank where I might be able to set it up for about $35.00. Chris Eliot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 14:04:53 gmt From: Mr Gordon S Byron <gsb1@forth.stirling.ac.uk> Subject: slots what's the difference between NuBus expansion slot & the so-called 020 direct and 030 direct slot? The latter is new to ,me Thanks ******************************************************************************* Snailmail: Gordon Byron, Arts Computing Advisor,Pathfoot Building, University of Stirling,FK9 4LA Stirling, Scotland, UK. Voice: Phone: 0786 73171: Ext 7266 ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 12:50 GMT From: Rupert Goodwins <rupertg@cix.compulink.co.uk> Subject: Spoofing Mac Floppies I'm new to low-level Mac programming, and I've been given the job of making a non-Macintosh device we make produce Macintosh-format floppy disks with files on them. For various good reasons, I'm unable just to buy any of the commercial products that (for example) produce Mac disks on a PC. I've been looking at Inside Mac vol IV, and the data there is ambiguous and incomplete. Can anyone recommend a better source of information, or does anyone actually know how, given a list of files, to produce a valid Macintosh floppy disk with the correct directory structure? I've tried to get similar information from Apple, but I've been comprehensively rebuffed. Help! Rupert Goodwins ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 10:43:08 PST From: hubble-lensed ringtail bassa <DUNN@intellicorp.com> Subject: TCL MIDI? Netters - 1) Has anyone seen any work done in ThinkC, and esp the TCL, for supporting the programming of MIDI applications? 2) Anyone know of a mail-list that specializes in home-recording, synths, midi-programming et al? 3) Can whatever is in Altech's MIDIBASIC package be used from Think C? Are there any other libraries/subroutines etc available? 4) anyone with experiance with MAX from OpCode? casey dunn@intellicorp.com ------ ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 91 16:47:37 GMT From: mcnair@cac.washington.edu (Mark McNair ) Subject: uw 4.2? Organization: University of Washington Is there a working version of uw 4.2 available, the "unix windows" program that lets a dial-in Mac display multiple windows from the Unix host? I've tried sumex and rascal, both had versions that would not decompress... Mark McNair, Desktop Computing Support University of Washington ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 17:33:17 +0100 From: reinder@neuretp.biol.ruu.nl Subject: why is the SI slower than th II? Numerous reports about Mac II SI speed or slowness have appeared. It appears that the SI gets slower when the RAM cache is enabled and/or when the monitor is set to more colors/blacks and whites :-) Although this seems very strange I think I can explain what causes this: Most micro-computers have an amount of memory called video RAM. This part of memory is read out frequently (60 or sometimes even more times a second) by a special chip ( called the video-chip) which generates the video signal. On all Macintoshes, except for the SI and the CI and presumably the LC this video RAM is located on a NuBus card. On the SI, CI (and LC?) however, the video memory is part of the normal system memory. This has the advantage that the part of memory which is not used to store the screen can be used for programs (This can be seen by comparing the 'Largest unused block' in the 'About the Finder' dialog in different screen depths). The disadvantage of this method is that the microprocessor and the video-chip have to share that part of memory. Since Apple does not want the screen to flicker whenever the microprocessor is accessing video-RAM (like on the Sinclair/Timex micro of some aeons ago) this means that the microprocessor will occasionaly have to wait in order to access video RAM. In 8-bit mode the video chip has to read 8 times as much data from memory as in 1 bit mode. Therefore the microprocessor has to wait for its turn more often, which leads to lower performance. Therefore programs should preferably be placed in the 'non-video-RAM', that is on RAM which is not soldered to the system board. On the Mac IIx (the only system on which I tested this) programs are placed as high in memory as possible I presume that video RAM in the SI, CI and LC is located up from address zero (address zero to 4095 or so have to be present in order to run the Mac OS and dividing memory in more than one block does not seem a good idea), therefore programs should also be placed in 'non-video-RAM' on the SI, if there is enough room to do that. This is where the RAM cache comes in: Some research on the location of the RAM cache revealed that it probably is located in the top of system memory. Switching off the RAM cache therefore gives you more free space in the faster memory range, which leads to better performance figures. Disclaimer: I do not have access to any of the newer machines, this is just my guess (but I DO believe it to be more or less true). How to check whether this is true: Put a number of copies of your favourite speed tester on a disk and run them all under MultiFinder with RAM cache disabled. The first few started should be the fasted ones, performance should drop on a certain moment. How to prevent that your programs get stuck in slow memory: - Allocate the entire video RAM to video (if that is possible; if not, can somebody write an INIT to do that?) - buy more memory (if you install 17 Meg in a SI you will probable not encounter many problems of this kind any more). PS: access to video memory on SI, CI and LC should still be faster than on NuBus-systems; the NuBus is relatively slow and the 'contention' problem arises also when writing to video-memory on a NuBus card. PS/2: read the disclaimer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 1991 16:40:21 GMT From: John_Mansfield@emal.sprl.umich.edu (John F. Mansfield) Subject: Word Weirdness Hi there, I notice people are again running into problems with the infamous Microsoft Word. Well here is a new on for you. Everytime I start Word by clicking on the application icon I get the message "Cant open file Untitled" with an OK button. When I click OK the application opens an empty document titled Unititled1. Why has it suddenly started to do this? I tried clearing out all the word temp files and word prefs but to no avail. Any help appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 91 09:07:23 PST From: ISCJCW@uccvma.ucop.edu Subject: ZMac >From: Jerry Wilcox ISCJCW@UCCVMA (415)987-0516 Subject: ZMac In Issue 30, Juan A. Pons raises the question of why ZMac is located on CompuServe rather than on one of the more "mac-like" services, such as America Online. Although Mr. Pons disputes the publisher's claim that the reason is one of simple numbers, my experience, I'm sad to say, agrees with the publisher. While I certainly prefer the graphical interface available on AO (and I frequent that service), I also find myself spending lots of time on CompuServe. Why? Because that's where most of the people with whom I communicate, are, first of all. Secondly, most, but not all, of the vendors whose hardware and software I use, offer on-line support on CompuServe. Yes, it is more expensive. No, I don't stay on-line and chat on CIS, where I do on AO. The simple fact is, ZMac is located where the numbers of Mac users are high. All you have to do is look at the volume of postings in any of the CIS Mac forums compared to the AO forums. Look at the size of the download libraries on CIS compared to AO. What should be done? I think two things: First of all, Mac users should put their money and time where their emotions are. Sign up for AO if you like the interface better. Use it (you'll be pleasantly surprised at the low cost, I know I was). Let your vendors know you'd like support on AO as well as on CIS (several vendors do offer support on both; others don't have a formal forum on AO, but do monitor and respond to messages left there). Ziff-Davis is, first and foremost a business, and if the numbers support a move, I'm sure that ZMac would either move or be duplicated on AO. Secondly, CompuServe Information Manager and/or Navigator are useful tools in minimizing on-line time on CIS. Ziff-Davis needs to be 'encouraged' to get off the *horrible* terminal emulation mode in CIS and be integrated into a more reasonable environment. Until such time as they do at least that much, I consider them a "use of last resort". Jerry Wilcox iscjcw@uccvma or iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu Bitnet ISCJCW@UCCVMA Internet ISCJCW@UCCVMA.ucop.edu AOL JCWilcox Disclaimer: These are my opinions, not those of my employer. ------------------------------ End of Info-Mac Digest ******************************