alcmist@ssc-vax.UUCP (Frederick Wamsley) (01/14/85)
SUMMARY
Distribute information about how to use net.general in a newsgroup
called net.general.newusers. Overseas sites could elect not to
receive net.general.newusers. People who know the rules could
unsubscribe from it.
The new group would cover ONLY rules for net.general and would not
try to duplicate the material in net.announce.newusers, which covers
the whole realm of netiquette.
ARGUMENTS
(this section is where I answer possible objections. It's long.
Skip it if you agree with me).
Objection #1 -- We should delete net.general instead of adding a subgroup!
I agree with this one. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be enough
of a consensus to nuke net.general. As long as we still have it we
should try to save it.
Objection #2 -- It wouldn't do any good.
I think it would. Net.announce.newusers has spread a lot of useful
information. Net.general.newusers would catch everyone in the USA
who is reading net.general for the first time. It should eliminate
mispostings due to ignorance.
I think a new subgroup has an advantage over all the other techniques
that have been tried to educate net.general users. Unlike printed
documentation, friendly software, and nasty letters to trash-posters,
it will reach everybody in the distribution area who is just
discovering the net.
Objection #3 -- It's redundant to net.announce.newusers
No, because the subject matter is different. It would describe how
to use one particular newsgroup properly.
Yes, net.announce.newusers already has the rules for net.general.
But they won't be seen by people who only skim net.announce.newusers,
or by people who don't have it on their subscription list.
Objection #4 -- So who has the time to write an intro to net.general?
I'll write it. There's no reason to take any more time away from
Chuq, Mark, Spaf & co.
Objection #5 -- It will be flooded by articles from new users.
Once they've read it, I hope they would know better. Maybe the
name should be net.general.intro, which doesn't sound like a
forum for new users to post to.
Objection #6 -- There's nothing wrong with net.general!
Yes there is. So many people have unsubscribed that it has lost
much effectiveness as a way of reaching people. My source for that
is Mark Horton.
Objection #7 -- You're a fascist.
I know somebody is going to say this. My motive is preserving an
unmoderated forum (net.general) which can reach thousands of people.
If that's fascism, call me Benito.
Objection #8 -- It doesn't give new people enough information.
True. Net.general.newusers probably ought to have a pointer to
net.announce.newusers.
Objection #9 -- You've missed the point. The problem isn't ignorance,
it's deliberate misuse of net.general.
I hope not. But if all those people posting path requests really do
know what net.general is for, then my proposal won't do any good.
Objection #10 -- net.general.newusers would burden Europe and Korea
with more traffic at high phone rates.
No, they wouldn't receive it.
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Well, what do people think? Am I totally off base? Have I come
up with something worthwhile?
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Fred Wamsley
--
UUCP:{ihnp4,decvax}!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!alcmist ARPA:ssc-vax!alcmist@uw-beaver
I am not speaking as a representative of the Boeing Company or any of
its divisions. Opinions expressed are solely my own (if that) and
have nothing to do with company policy or with the opinions of my
coworkers, or those of the staff of the Software Support Center VAX.
(did I leave anyone out? :-))alb@alice.UUCP (Adam L. Buchsbaum) (01/15/85)
What a waste of a newsgroup! The guidelines for using net.general can be summarized in one article. You want to create a group just for that? Come on! The solution to the whole problem of wasted traffic on the net (of which net.general is just a small part) can never be solved by creating more newsgroups. On the contrary, that just increases the problem. If people aren't reading net.announce.newsusers, then they aren't going to read net.general.newsusers just because it's in a different place.
john@genrad.UUCP (John Nelson) (01/15/85)
Instead of net.general.newusers, why not create net.newusers (and make this the default subscription list). That way, all new users can discuss net usage issues among themselves, and leave us old-timers alone! :-)
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (01/16/85)
Posting instructions has never worked before. Most of the problem comes from people who don't know how to read instructions. Here's another idea: we move net.general to mod.general, e.g. put a moderator in the loop. We could establish a charter that says if the message is of earthshaking importance, it goes to net.announce, if it's not but it's not a mistake either, put it on mod.general. This way, the less important things that are still appropriate to net.general would have an outlet, namely mod.general, but mistakes such as followups and things that belong elsewhere could be kept out. I do not volunteer as the moderator, not only don't I have the time, but I feel that it would be wrong for one person to run both net.announce and mod.general. Mark
spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (01/19/85)
In article <336@ssc-vax.UUCP> alcmist@ssc-vax.UUCP (Frederick Wamsley) writes: >SUMMARY > >Distribute information about how to use net.general in a newsgroup >called net.general.newusers. Overseas sites could elect not to >receive net.general.newusers. People who know the rules could >unsubscribe from it. > >The new group would cover ONLY rules for net.general and would not >try to duplicate the material in net.announce.newusers, which covers >the whole realm of netiquette. > > [...] >Objection #4 -- So who has the time to write an intro to net.general? > >I'll write it. There's no reason to take any more time away from >Chuq, Mark, Spaf & co. > > >Well, what do people think? Am I totally off base? Have I come >up with something worthwhile? I think the intentions are good, but I doubt it will work. I think a better approach would be to go ahead and write the article (as you volunteered above -- great! That's the kind of positive help we need) and I can include it in the standard net.announce.newusers posting. The question about what to do with net.general has been around for quite a while. I think the most rational comment I've seen (from many people) is that net.general is filling a need, even if it isn't meeting the originally stated goals. If net.general were to be deleted, people would start posting the inappropriate garbage to net.misc, or net.news. If only news administrators would make sure that their users read the stuff in net.announce.newusers before they post anything.... -- Gene "7 months and counting" Spafford The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf%GATech.CSNet @ CSNet-Relay.ARPA uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!spaf