mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (08/28/85)
The opening event of the Dewars Jazz Festival took place in Washington Square Park (that's Greenwich Village for non-New Yorkers) with a free concert by Kenny Burrell and Stan Getz. Burrell was with his working trio and played mostly modal pieces, displaying his tasteful tone and incisive chops to good effect. Particularly effective was a mid-tempo version of Miless "All Blues" and the closing tune taken from an extended work, called "Don't Go To New York". Does anybody know it? I have not really followed Burrell's work since the ELLINGTON IS FOREVER albums. Getz appeared with a killer quartet: Kenny Barron, George Mraz and Al Foster on piano, bass and drums, respectively. Getz is the greatest living tenor saxophonist, with only Wayne Shorter his equal, and he staked his claim here again. The tunes were varied, although there were not enough ballads to my taste (then again, a ballad ought not be played until night has fallen) with Barron especially effective on a couple of Bud Powell tunes, and Mraz in top form throughout. Getz appeared more relaxed than at other gigs I have seen heard in the past year. He established a good rapport with thew audience. In short, a good time was had by all. Marcel Simon
wjh@bonnie.UUCP (Bill Hery) (08/30/85)
> > .............................Getz is the greatest living tenor > saxophonist, with only Wayne Shorter his equal...... > Although I have a great deal of respect for Getz' playing, particularly much of his older work, I think it's an exaggeration to call him the greatest living tenor saxophonist--surely Sonny Rollins and Dexter Gordon are at least his equal. Sonny's recent (last ten years) work has been less than outstanding only because he insists on surrounding himself with dull musicians, and uses a raggae/disco feel to extend his popularity beyond serious jazz audiences. His solos are still marvelous (although I don't enjoy the entire performance because of the other musicians). On the basis of his earlier work, he should probably be considered the greatest living tenor man--the quintets with Miles, the early Monk collaborations (especially Friday the Thirteenth), the Roach/Brown quintet, the great trio recordings at the Vanguard, the quartet recordings with Jim Hall (especially The Bridge) immediately come to mind as recordings that are as good or better than any of Getz work. This summer he gave a solo concert in the Museum of Modern Art Sculpture garden (NYC) that was supposed to be superb. It was recorded, and the album is scheduled to come out around October. I think that this lp will re-establish Sonny as the top tenor man among serious jazz fans. Dexter Gordon's work has been consistantly fine since the 1940's, and he was a major influence in the development of both Rollins and Getz (actually, he was also later influenced by both Getz and Rollins). He can be considered to be the founder of the bebop movement for tenor sax. As with Rollins, his most important work was done years ago. But the same applies to Getz and Shorter (does his work with Weather Report come up to his work with Miles?). If you want to define greatest as the one whose CURRENT work is the best, then I think all four have to bow to David Murray, who I predict will be winning the db critcs poll in a few years. Pick up some of his recent lps, or even better, catch him live next time he's around. I'll be there. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a big fan of Getz. I've enjoyed seeing him live around a dozen times, going back to his old quartet with a teenage phenomenon by the name of Gary Burton (who got his big break with Stan), and I think his recent duet album with the late Albert Daley was the best I've heard from him (live or on lp) since his first quartet with Chick Corea (~1967). Bill Hery
mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (08/30/85)
> > ME: > > .............................Getz is the greatest living tenor > > saxophonist, with only Wayne Shorter his equal...... > > > Bill Hery: > Although I have a great deal of respect for Getz' playing, particularly > much of his older work, I think it's an exaggeration to call him the > greatest living tenor saxophonist--surely Sonny Rollins and Dexter Gordon > are at least his equal. > Of course, terms like "best" and "greatest" are subjective and have been the start of many an argument among fans. I never meant any insult to Rollins, Gordon, or anyone else. Gordon has recorded little interesting music in the last 7-8 years. Other than an exceptional New Years Eve gig broadcast from San Francisco three years ago, I have heard him do little interesting live playing either (he has not played the Apple in some 2 years that I am aware of) Bill correctly observes that Rollins has often been brought down by the inferior musicians he surrounds himself with. However, his recent *solo* concert at MOMA was only so-so (my immediate impression, I hope the LP will dispell it) Also, the Milestone Jazzstars tour of 1977, with McCoy Tyner, Ron Carter and Al Foster, all surely Rollins' peers, is also not up to the level of, say, SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS or MORE FROM THE VANGUARD. Getz's recent playing, on the other hand, is in my opinion, the best he has done ever (OK, THE CHICK COREA/BILL EVANS SESSIONS is pretty hard to top.) This is based on the four occasions I have seen him in the last year and 1/2. I am sure Bill will agree that mastering the ballad form is the truest test of mainstream playing. I just don't think anyone can match Getz's depth of expression there. There is ALWAYS room for argument, but I feel Stan's case is pretty strong. Now Dex or Sonny could come out and release monster albums that will send every one scurrying for cover. If and when that happens, I'll be the first to bow humbly before them. As for Wayne, he hardly plays on Zawinul's plantation, so that does not count. I was of course referring to his work with VSOP, which is always fine and often stunning (VSOP (one side), THE QUINTET, LIVE UNDER THE SKY and TEMPEST IN THE COLOSSEUM, all on Columbia) as well as his marvelous obbligatos behind Joni Mitchell on MINGUS and WILD THINGS RUN FAST (the LPs are uneven, but Wayne shines) As I did not say in my original article, I was referring to mainstream tenorists. Bill is absolutely correct about David Murray. (Of course, David is a leader of the so-called "new traditionalism" movement, so maybe he should be called mainstream as well. Time to revise the theories!) Besides, it's more fun to argue, isn't it? Marcel Simon
hedger@ada-uts.UUCP (09/01/85)
marcel (and netters), I don't want to get into any juvenile discussions about who's the greatest living tenor player.....but I thought I just make this note about Getz. I saw the same quartet with Getz in Cambridge mass. just three nights ago....I like Getz , he's a great player..and the rythm section was great but why doesn't he play anything except bossa novas and light latin ballads???????? Even though these guys are all great players the concert overall was BORING!!!!!! DON'T get me wrong I don't hate ballads or latin beats but every tune had the same kind of feel...that's always been my problem with Getz' albums. Was the Washington Sq. concert any different Marcel??????
mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (09/05/85)
> I saw the same quartet with Getz in Cambridge mass. just > three nights ago....I like Getz , he's a great player..and the > rythm section was great but why doesn't he play anything except > bossa novas and light latin ballads???????? Even though these guys are > all great players the concert overall was BORING!!!!!! > DON'T get me wrong I don't hate ballads or latin beats but every tune had > the same kind of feel...that's always been my problem with Getz' albums. > Was the Washington Sq. concert any different Marcel?????? The Park concert had no latin tunes, except for a short encore that rehashed Getz' big hits (You know, "Desafinado", "One Note Samba", etc) He played it because the people backstage signaled him that there was time for another tune after he had already stopped playing. He clearly was not interested in going over his Latin chestnuts yet another time. The rest of the concert was standards, Walt Dickerson and Bud Powell tunes, taken at medium tempo (except for a fiery "Parisian Thoroughfare"), with a couple of ballads added. Opinion, but I think there is nothing more satisfying in jazz than a well executed ballad (except maybe a good big band roaring as one, but that depends on what mood I am in) because when playing a ballad, the player is naked. Everything revolves around the interpretation by THAT person, THAT day. One cannot be saved by a hot drummer or pianist. Just a matter of personal preference. Marcel Simon
wjh@bonnie.UUCP (Bill Hery) (09/05/85)
> > > .............................Getz is the greatest living tenor > > > saxophonist, with only Wayne Shorter his equal...... > > > > > ........................--surely Sonny Rollins and Dexter Gordon > > are at least his equal. > > > > Gordon has recorded little interesting music in the last 7-8 years. > Was his Manhattan Suite lp within that time fram? There was a beautiful version of As Time Goes By on the lp, and the whole album is superb. Also, about 5 years ago I went to a Philharmonic Hall consert with Stan and Dex each leading their groups. At that time, I went mainly for Stan, and for a first live listening to Dex. Stan was a major disappointment-he had an electric bassist, electirc guitar player, and (I think) an electric piano player--all of whom seemed to be below even Sonny Rollins standards for sidemen. I don't know what he was trying to acheive, but it was a dismal failure. The band did not come close to captuting the fire of his quasi electronic group on Captain Marvel, but instead sounded like a jazz musician (Stan) accidently playing with an instrumental rock group derived from the Jimmy Hendricks via Cream (and not even doing that well). Neither semmed to understand the other, and neither did their own thing very well. Dex, on the other hand, played a superb set with his regular quartet--Beautiful ballads mixed with some dirving bebop derived pieces, and Dex's fantastic audience rapport. He won me over, and I've had the pleasure of seeing him live a few times since then. My only complaint about Dex is that what he is doing now is pretty much the same as what he was doing twenty years ago. But then, I wasn't listening to him twenty years ago > ...................................................However, Rollins recent > *solo* concert at MOMA was only so-so (my immediate impression, I hope the LP > will dispell it) Also, the Milestone Jazzstars tour of 1977, with McCoy Tyner, Ron > Carter and Al Foster, all surely Rollins' peers, is also not up > to the level of, say, SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS or MORE FROM THE VANGUARD. Did you get in to see it? I'd like to see a review of the concert on the net. I tried to get in, arriving 1.5 hours before concert time (it was free, and there were no advance tickets), but the line was three blocks long already, and I couldn't get in. Re: Milestones lp--admittedly, it is not up to the level of some previous lps, but I still think it is one of his finest. One interesting aspect to me is that this lp shows an (early0 Coltrane influence more than any of his others. > > .......................This is based on the four occasions I have seen > Stan Getz in the last year and 1/2. I am sure Bill will agree that mastering > the ballad form is the truest test of mainstream playing. I just > don't think anyone can match Getz's depth of expression there. > I wouldn't agree that it is the TRUEST test. One could also argue that handling hard driving pieces (say, Cherokee) is the turest test. I think a great musician should be well rounded and be able to play both. In a live preformance, an hour of all ballads or all cookers might get a bit dull--even Art Blakey mixes in a few ballads. Of course, Stan can do a great job with the cookers as well--listen to some of his old Verve lp's from the mid fifties. I will agree that Stan CAN reach a 'depth of expressin' that few can match (recently demonstrated in his great duo lp with Albert Daley), but most of what I have heard from Stan recently hasn't done that. In addition to the concert mentioned above, I saw him in another concert about 2 years ago. By then he was back into a ballad mode, but his playig that night was dull and mawkish. Maybe it was just an off night (that's the problem with judging musicians on the basis of live performance--just like us, they can have off nights). > > Besides, it's more fun to argue, isn't it? > Of course. Isn't that why you made the initial posting? Now, about jazz trumpet players who start playing mediocre rock..... Bill Hery
mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (09/06/85)
> > ME > Bill Hery > > Gordon has recorded little interesting music in the last 7-8 years. > > > Was his Manhattan Suite lp within that time fram? There was a beautiful > version of As Time Goes By on the lp, and the whole album is superb. I was referring to GOTHAM CITY and HOME COMING, which I find disappointing. Certainly not up to OUR MAN IN PARIS, GO or A SWINGING AFFAIR. > about 5 years ago I went to a Philharmonic Hall consert with Stan and Dex each > leading their groups. At that time, I went mainly for Stan, and for a first > live listening to Dex. Stan was a major disappointment... > Dex, on the other hand, played a superb set with his regular quartet--Beautiful > ballads mixed with some dirving bebop derived pieces, and Dex's fantastic > audience rapport..... Which points to the dangers of rating people by live performance. I last saw Dex four years ago, and although his audience rapport was great (I like the way he "offers" the tenor to the audience when accepting applause) his playing was so-so. As I said previously, I heard him in a WBGO broadcast from San Francisco that a friend taped and he was great (a superb "Body and Soul") but in my opinion he has not done much that equals his sixties work. > > ...................................................However, Rollins recent > > *solo* concert at MOMA was only so-so (my immediate impression, I hope the LP > > will dispell it) > > Did you get in to see it? I'd like to see a review of the concert on the > net. I tried to get in, arriving 1.5 hours before concert time (it > was free, and there were no advance tickets), but the line was three > blocks long already, and I couldn't get in. > "Saw" is too strong a term, I got swallowed in the crowd and saw almost nothing. I could barely hear. There is a very good review of the concert by Gary Giddins in the Village Voice of two-three weeks ago. I did not post a review because I don't feel I got enough of the concert to do Rollins justice. My "so-so" comment is an immediate impression. I'll reserve judgement until I can hear the LP and check out the music more closely. > Re: Milestones lp--admittedly, it is not up to the level of some previous > lps, but I still think it is one of his finest. One interesting aspect to > me is that this lp shows an (early0 Coltrane influence more than any of > his others. > I saw the New York concert of that tour (at the Beacon) and while it was visually fascinating (Rollins wore a tuxedo with bright red sneakers and no socks) it did not have the punch that line-up made me expect. The album confirmed that. I like "Nubia" but my general impression is 'that's nice, ho-hum' as opposed to 'WOW!!!!!!!' when I hear the Vanguard recordings.... > > ... I am sure Bill will agree that mastering > > the ballad form is the truest test of mainstream playing. > > I wouldn't agree that it is the TRUEST test. One could also argue that > handling hard driving pieces (say, Cherokee) is the turest test. I > think a great musician should be well rounded and be able to play > both. In a live preformance, an hour of all ballads or all cookers > might get a bit dull Opinion, but in a cooker, you need a strong drummer to keep Time as interesting as chords. In a ballad, the soloist's own rhythm takes over and he/she must provide the melodic, harmonic, rhythmic feel of the pice AND imprint his/her own image onto it. Tougher by far. Most masters of the ballad (Miles, Ben Webster, Dex....) also excel at uptempo tunes, but the reverse is not always true (e.g. Hank Mobley [I love Mobley, no flames please]) > > > > Besides, it's more fun to argue, isn't it? > > > Of course. Isn't that why you made the initial posting? Now, about > jazz trumpet players who start playing mediocre rock..... Yes, I don't mind controversy, it's the spice of usenetting (:-) Marcel Simon
amc@whuts.UUCP (Andy Cohill) (09/11/85)
> > marcel (and netters), > I don't want to get into any juvenile discussions about who's the > greatest living tenor player.....I like Getz , > he's a great player..and the > rythm section was great but why doesn't he play anything except > bossa novas and light latin ballads???????? Even though these guys are > all great players the concert overall was BORING!!!!!! He also happens to be cheap sonofabitch, too. Twenty years ago, I was his paperboy, and he never once forked over even a lousy dime for a tip. Plus, he had a driveway that was a quarter of a mile long, and like the good little paperboy that I was, I always took the paper up to the door. Just once, I wish I had left it at the end of the drive in the pouring rain.... Andy Cohill {allegra|ihnp4}houxm!whuxl!whuts!amc