saponara@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (John Saponara) (10/26/87)
References:
The classic mainframe game 'Empire' is now available on the Atari ST. I
have before me the newest TEVEX catalog, which lists it as being available
from Interstel, with the writeup:
"Enhanced version of the classic mainframe strategy game. Interstel has added
many new features to the game. You start in control of one city, and your
goal is to conquer the entire planet. As you explore and expand your empire,
you will run into one or two opponents who are also building empires."
Its list is $55, ($38 from Tevex, call 1-800-554-1162 - no, I don't work for
them, they've just got fast delivery & cheap prices). Has anyone bought it?
Reviews, please?
Eric Haines, using a friend's account.koreth@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Steven Grimm) (10/26/87)
In article <2731@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> saponara@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (John Saponara) writes: >The classic mainframe game 'Empire' is now available on the Atari ST. I'm working on a port, too -- but mine will be PD. It'll make a really nice online game for BBSs. +New! Improved! Now 100% Artificial-+-+-----------------------------------+ |# # @@@ **** &&&&& $$$$$ % %| |Steven Grimm | |# # @ @ * * & $ % %+-+ ARPA: koreth@ucscb.ucsc.edu | |### @ @ **** &&&& $ %%%%%| | UUCP: ...!ucbvax!ucscc!ssyx!koreth| |# # @ @ * * & $ % %+-+ ______________________________| |# # @@@ * ** &&&&& $ % %| | |"Let's see what's out there."| +-----with NutraSour(TM)! No natural colors or preservatives!------------+
za56@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU (Brian McNeill) (10/27/87)
In article <2731@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> saponara@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (John Saponara) writes: >The classic mainframe game 'Empire' is now available on the Atari ST. I >have before me the newest TEVEX catalog, which lists it as being available >from Interstel, with the writeup: > >"Enhanced version of the classic mainframe strategy game. Interstel has added >many new features to the game. You start in control of one city, and your >goal is to conquer the entire planet. As you explore and expand your empire, >you will run into one or two opponents who are also building empires." > >Its list is $55, ($38 from Tevex, call 1-800-554-1162 - no, I don't work for >them, they've just got fast delivery & cheap prices). Has anyone bought it? >Reviews, please? > I have played it for the Mac...from what I saw it is VERY much more difficult than the same mainframe game, which I used to play often. (I played 5 games vs. the computer, at the easiest difficulty setting, and lost every one... I only came close ONCE...normally I win about 75% of the games (on the mainframe version) This may be due to two things... 1) New unit, the bomber...a one shot unit, but will destroy anything it is used against, and will render a city neutral again...changes the entire strategy of the game, as it has a very long range (ie the enemy can knock out your production cities very quickly...) 2) Reduced production times...ie, a battleship that used to take over 70 turns to construct now takes less than half that... Both of these, when combined with the computer never making a simple error make it exceedingly difficult to win the game...in the old game, the longer production time and the lack of multi-hit units on land forgive simple human errors, with the new stuff, it makes even the simplest errors very costly (ie, I once forgot to move an army, and because of that, I lost a city that was due to produce a bomber next turn (29 turns down the drain)) Hope this helps, Brian McNeill za56@sdcc3.ucsd.edu
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/28/87)
In article <1030@saturn.ucsc.edu> (Steven Grimm) writes: >In article <2731@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> (John Saponara) writes: >>The classic mainframe game 'Empire' is now available on the Atari ST. >I'm working on a port, too -- but mine will be PD. It'll make a really nice >online game for BBSs. Be careful. There are a two flavors of empire, one with gold, and sectors, and many players, the other with Troop Transports, Carriers, Fighters, etc. This second one, originally appeared on DEC mainframes (it was written in Fortran) and was later ported to the Vax. For a while it was available on a DECUS source tape. Well the author, Walter Bright, sold/gave/whatever the rights to this program to Interstel, and no one else. He asked DECUS to stop distributing it and they did. So you cannot 'port' it and make it PD legally. All you can do is re-write it and make the version *you* created PD. Not that Interstel will probably sue you, although they could. Walter's last known mail address was at Data IO : bright@dataio.Data-IO.com ...!fluke!tikal!dataio!bright --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
RLWALD@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Robert Wald) (10/28/87)
In article <4083@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU>, za56@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU (Brian McNeill) writes: >In article <2731@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> saponara@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (John Saponara) writes: >>The classic mainframe game 'Empire' is now available on the Atari ST. I >>have before me the newest TEVEX catalog, which lists it as being available >>from Interstel, with the writeup: >> >> > >I have played it for the Mac...from what I saw it is VERY much more difficult >than the same mainframe game, which I used to play often. (I played 5 games >vs. the computer, at the easiest difficulty setting, and lost every one... >I only came close ONCE...normally I win about 75% of the games (on the mainframe >version) > Are you talking about Strategic Conquest? I didn't think that it was from that company but you describe it just like it. Strategic Conquest is a fantastic game, but with a strange version of copy-protection: If it thinks its a bogus copy, it plays impossibly hard. Now, I , and most people who have tried it, quickly master the game at lower levels. There is only one reason why you can't win at level 1, where it plays very badly. Say no more. It is impossible (at least for me) to beat at level 14-15, though. I highly recommend it for the Mac ( like I said, I'm not sure that what is advertised for the ST is the same). It is a very addictive and fun game. The new release had great sound and is faster and plays better and lets you play another person. Now, if someone would only respond to one of my requests on info for Empire (ANY VERSION)! I'll be kind and say that its just that the mail or postings aren't getting through. -Rob Wald Bitnet: RLWALD@PUCC.BITNET Uucp: {ihnp4|allegra}!psuvax1!PUCC.BITNET!RLWALD Arpa: RLWALD@PUCC.Princeton.Edu "Why are they all trying to kill me?" "They don't realize that you're already dead." -The Prisoner
bright@dataio.UUCP (10/28/87)
In article <32110@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <1030@saturn.ucsc.edu> (Steven Grimm) writes: >>In article <2731@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> (John Saponara) writes: >>I'm working on a port, too -- but mine will be PD. It'll make a really nice >>online game for BBSs. > >You cannot 'port' it and make it >PD legally. All you can do is re-write it and make the version *you* >created PD. Be careful to rewrite it from scratch, also don't use the name Empire. >Not that Interstel will probably sue you, although they >could. Interstel owns the rights, and is very interested in protecting them, as the game is selling quite well. I might add that the entire source code is registered with the US Copyright Office (not just the first and last 25 pages). That means that if you distribute it, you are liable for damages and legal expenses. I'm sorry about this, but people have been ignoring my requests to stop distributing it, so now I have to resort to threatening. If that doesn't work, the lawyers will get involved.
matt@oddjob.UUCP (10/29/87)
In article <1401@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
) Be careful to rewrite it from scratch, also don't use the name Empire.
You cannot forbid anyone to use the name "Empire" for any program.
Matt Crawfordsean@ukma.UUCP (10/29/87)
In article <1401@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes: >In article <32110@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >>You cannot 'port' it and make it >>PD legally. All you can do is re-write it and make the version *you* >>created PD. > >Be careful to rewrite it from scratch, also don't use the name Empire. Maybe one can't use the name Empire for a game that looks like Walter Bright empire, but what about using Empire for a game that looks like Langston's Empire? Which program is older? Sean -- -- Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!sean -- (the Empire guy) sean@ms.uky.csnet, sean@UKMA.BITNET -- "Inconceivable!"
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/30/87)
In article <14051@oddjob.UChicago.EDU> matt@oddjob.UChicago.EDU writes: >In article <1401@dataio.Data-IO.COM> (Walter Bright) writes: >) Be careful to rewrite it from scratch, also don't use the name Empire. >You cannot forbid anyone to use the name "Empire" for any program. > Matt Crawford Sure you can, the same way GM keeps you from building a car and calling it a Cadillac. It's called Trademark law. Great stuff, now they probably couldn't prevent you from using the name Empire to describe a batch of cookies but there is much chance you would get them confused is there? --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
jimu@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (James Allen Urbas) (10/30/87)
In article <14051@oddjob.UChicago.EDU> matt@oddjob.UChicago.EDU (Schizophrenic Solipsist) writes: >In article <1401@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes: > >) Be careful to rewrite it from scratch, also don't use the name Empire. > >You cannot forbid anyone to use the name "Empire" for any program. > > Matt Crawford Yea, but only because, deep down, all games are Empire... Jim Urbas/Rich Rosen/Matt Crawford :-) <BLAM> .-) <BLAM> <BLAM> .D - Ha Beware net.zombie.smilies from hell...
matt@oddjob.UUCP (10/30/87)
) >In article <1401@dataio.Data-IO.COM> (Walter Bright) writes: ) >) Be careful to rewrite it from scratch, also don't use the name Empire. ) In article <14051@oddjob.UChicago.EDU> matt@oddjob.UChicago.EDU writes: ) >You cannot forbid anyone to use the name "Empire" for any program. In article <32410@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: ) Sure you can, the same way GM keeps you from building a car and calling ) it a Cadillac. It's called Trademark law. I thought about this before I sent my message and I sent it anyway. Establishing a trademark does not prevent anyone from using the name. It only helps you win the battle if someone *does* use it. Winning may include forcing the other person to stop using the name. But I don't think that's very relevant here, because Walter or his distributors would have a *very* tough time establishing a claim to trademark rights on the name "empire" for a computer game, given the plethora of games already existing with that name. Furthermore, no word which describes the product may be given trademark status. For example, you can not trademark the word "fast" for a computer or the word "delicious" for a food or drink. The word "empire" could well be considered to fall into this category. Walter, do you think that you or your distributor or licensee has trademark rights to the word "empire"? If so, why? ________________________________________________________ Matt University matt@oddjob.uchicago.edu Crawford of Chicago {astrovax,ihnp4}!oddjob!matt I can't understand it ... induction has always worked before!
olsen@ll-xn.UUCP (10/30/87)
>>>[Steven Grimm] I'm working on a port, too -- but mine will be PD. >>[Walter Bright] ...don't use the name Empire. >Matt Crawford] You cannot forbid anyone to use the name "Empire"... The name "empire" is already quite ambiguous and confusing as it is. Irrespective of the legal questions, Steven would be well advised to choose another name for his program. He might have the word "empire" in the name, but it should be distinctive enough to avoid confusion with the other "empires". This would be a blessing to all concerned.
bright@dataio.Data-IO.COM (Walter Bright) (10/30/87)
In article <14051@oddjob.UChicago.EDU> matt@oddjob.UChicago.EDU (Schizophrenic Solipsist) writes: )In article <1401@dataio.Data-IO.COM) bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes: )) Be careful to rewrite it from scratch, also don't use the name Empire. )You cannot forbid anyone to use the name "Empire" for any program. You cannot use the name Empire and attach it to a program that is similar to my Empire game. That would be trademark infringement. The same rule would apply if you wrote an operating system and called it MS-DOS. I think you would hear from Microsoft real fast. I've often wondered why people think that since I'm a very small company that I'm not entitled to the same protection under the law that billion dollar corporations are.
neil@atari.UUCP (10/30/87)
In article <1030@saturn.ucsc.edu>, koreth@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Steven Grimm) writes: > In article <2731@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> saponara@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (John Saponara) writes: > >The classic mainframe game 'Empire' is now available on the Atari ST. > > I'm working on a port, too -- but mine will be PD. It'll make a really nice > online game for BBSs. Since Empire's design is copyrighted, I'm sure that Walter Bright would object to any PD versions of his game. The ST version from Interstel has a lot of nice features -- full mouse or keyboard control, graphics, play-by-mail option, up to 3 human players, etc. I recommend it highly. -- --->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
neil@atari.UUCP (10/30/87)
In article <4083@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU>, za56@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU (Brian McNeill) writes: > I have played it for the Mac...from what I saw it is VERY much more difficult > than the same mainframe game, which I used to play often. (I played 5 games > vs. the computer, at the easiest difficulty setting, and lost every one... > I only came close ONCE...normally I win about 75% of the games (on the mainframe > version) > > This may be due to two things... > 1) New unit, the bomber...a one shot unit, but will destroy anything it > is used against, and will render a city neutral again...changes the > entire strategy of the game, as it has a very long range (ie the enemy > can knock out your production cities very quickly...) The ST version of Empire is considerably easier than this. There is NO bomber unit. I managed to crush the computer (set at easy) in my very first game -- apparently this is common. Against 2 computer opponents set to expert level, it will give you a tougher game. -- --->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
cdaf@iucs.UUCP (10/31/87)
In article <1405@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes: > >You cannot use the name Empire and attach it to a program that is similar >to my Empire game. That would be trademark infringement. The same rule >would apply if you wrote an operating system and called it MS-DOS. I think >you would hear from Microsoft real fast. > 2 questions: 1) Are you the author of the original Empire? If not, then I don't think you can TradeMark the name (My copy of the copyright and trademark laws are out on loan....) 2) If you had placed Empire in the public domain at some point previous, (or anybody else had) before you registered the name.... you *did* register the name as a trademark, didn't you? - this is different from getting a copyright registered..... then I doubt that you can get a legitemate trademark. -charles -- Charles Daffinger (812) 339-7354 Box 1662 cdaf@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu Bloomington, IN 47402-1662 {pur-ee,rutgers,pyramid,ihnp4}!iuvax!cdaf Home of the Whitewater mailing list: whitewater-request@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) (10/31/87)
In article <1405@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes: >You cannot use the name Empire and attach it to a program that is similar >to my Empire game. That would be trademark infringement. The same rule >would apply if you wrote an operating system and called it MS-DOS. I think >you would hear from Microsoft real fast. How about "Casey's Empire", referring to a Langston-like multiplayer game played on a hex grid? Sean -- -- Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, {rutgers,uunet,cbosgd}!ukma!sean -- (the Empire guy) sean@ms.uky.csnet, sean@UKMA.BITNET -- "Inconceivable!"
csan@its63b.ed.ac.uk (Andie) (11/02/87)
In article <32410@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <14051@oddjob.UChicago.EDU> matt@oddjob.UChicago.EDU writes: > >Sure you can, the same way GM keeps you from building a car and calling >it a Cadillac. It's called Trademark law. Great stuff, now they probably >couldn't prevent you from using the name Empire to describe a batch of >cookies but there is much chance you would get them confused is there? Over here in darkest Britain, there is a company marketing a vacuum cleaner called .... VAX ! As far as I know, the copyright/trademark laws cover like entities .. ie I think you're right. Andie Ness . Department of Computer Science EDINBURGH University. ARPA: csan%ed.its63b@ucl-cs.arpa UUCP: ...!seismo!mcvax!ukc!its63b!csan JANET: csan@uk.ac.ed.its63b % These are my own views and any resemblance to any coherent reasoning is % probably a typo. % % "The back row strikes again!"
bright@dataio.Data-IO.COM (Walter Bright) (11/02/87)
In article <4731@iucs.UUCP> cdaf@iucs.UUCP (Charles A. Daffinger) writes:
$1) Are you the author of the original Empire?
Yes I am.
$2) If you had placed Empire in the public domain at some point
$ previous, (or anybody else had) before you registered the name....
$ you *did* register the name as a trademark, didn't you? - this
$ is different from getting a copyright registered.....
$ then I doubt that you can get a legitemate trademark.
Empire was never placed in the public domain. It was mistakenly
distributed by DECUS who THOUGHT it was public domain.
I am not very familiar with how the trademark laws work.bds@lzaz.ATT.COM (BRUCE SZABLAK) (11/02/87)
There is also another game called Empire distributed by CDC for Plato systems. It was a multi-player (as many as 24 players I think), semi-realtime, team based (federation, romulans, orions, and kazari) space warfare game. I was playing it around 1979, and I know it existed prior to that.
firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) (11/03/87)
In article <709@its63b.ed.ac.uk> csan@its63b.ed.ac.uk (Andie) writes: >Over here in darkest Britain, there is a company marketing a vacuum cleaner >called .... VAX ! What a coincidence. Over here in pre-Depression North America, we have a warm-air blower called VAX, and for that matter a furniture distribution chain called Empire.
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (11/05/87)
In article <709@its63b.ed.ac.uk> csan@its63b.ed.ac.uk (Andie) writes: >Over here in darkest Britain, there is a company marketing a vacuum cleaner >called .... VAX ! As far as I know, the copyright/trademark laws cover like >entities .. ie I think you're right. And over on this side of the pond, one of the hot items is a tee shirt that this same company put out with the slogan "Nothing Sucks like a Vaxx" Quite popular. Which, if you can find one, I would like to arrange the purchase of it :-). --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.