David.Anderson@K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (11/04/87)
A recent issue of MacTutor reported that some (heavily used?) LaserWriters have been seen to have fuser roller damage caused by constant contact with the rubber guides above the roller. They said that there is no known fix for this problem, short of rebuilding the engine. Does anyone know more about the potential for trouble here? --- dba@cs.cmu.edu
garrett@UDEL.EDU (Joel Garrett) (11/13/87)
In article <8711121801.AA08578@brillig.umd.edu> David.Anderson@K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU writes: >A recent issue of MacTutor reported that some (heavily used?) >LaserWriters have been seen to have fuser roller damage caused by >constant contact with the rubber guides above the roller. They said >that there is no known fix for this problem, short of rebuilding the >engine. Does anyone know more about the potential for trouble here? > >--- >dba@cs.cmu.edu We had that problem on our oldest (and most heavily-used) LaserWriter. I didn't think the things that gouged up the fuser assembly were the rubber things though, there are what look like three metal triangles (for lack of a better word) that ripped the red coating off of 3 areas on the fuser. This resulted in output that wasn't well-fused in these areas. The didn't rebuild the engine, but they did replace the fuser bar and tinkered around with the fuser pressure settings a little. The printer seems to be doing ok now, almost 70,000 pages since we had a logic board replaced a while back. Joel Garrett University of Delaware arpa: garrett@udel.edu
chuq@SUN.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (11/13/87)
>A recent issue of MacTutor reported that some (heavily used?) >LaserWriters have been seen to have fuser roller damage caused by >constant contact with the rubber guides above the roller. They said >that there is no known fix for this problem, short of rebuilding the >engine. Does anyone know more about the potential for trouble here? I was amused by this. Here at Sun we tend to beat LW's into the ground (15,000-20,000 pages a month is not uncommon on the one down the hall). LW's with 150,000 to 200,000 pages on it are not uncommon. I've never seen this on the machines here, and I think if this was a 'common' problem it would have shown up by now. Mactutor's well known for barking up trees before getting the facts, especially when it looks like they can get some publicity or make Apple look bad. I certainly haven't seen any corroborating evidence from any place outside of Mactutor that makes me believe anyone has seen this except them. For all we know, they're refilling their cartridges with bad toner or something, and it's corroding their rollers. I don't think this is a problem I'll lose sleep over just yet. Has anyone else seen this problem on a laserwriter? Or is this just MacTutor's problem? chuq -- --- Chuq "Fixed in 4.0" Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ [[Editor's note: Earlier discussion in laser-lovers reminded us all that the rated capacity of the CX engine is only 3000 pages per month. Further, the overall rated lifetime of the print engine is also relatively small---100,000 pages per month. The summary of that earlier discussion is that while you can push the engine well past that rated volume, it breaks after a while. --Rick ]]
kateley@apple.UUCP (Jim Kateley) (11/14/87)
In article <8711121801.AA08578@brillig.umd.edu> David.Anderson@K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU writes: >A recent issue of MacTutor reported that some (heavily used?) >LaserWriters have been seen to have fuser roller damage caused by ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Damage? Actually, you should consider it normal wear and tear. The Laserwriter has a lot of mechnical parts which are going to wear out over time....not unlike a car. When you buy a car, don't you plan on spending money on routine maintenance? >constant contact with the rubber guides above the roller. They said >that there is no known fix for this problem, short of rebuilding the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >engine Actually, you can have the fuser roller replaced, or the entire fuser assembly replaced, so you don't have to rebuild the entire engine. At 100,000 copies there are recommended procedures on certain components to replace because of normal wear and tear. Again, I don't see this as problem because these components are going to wear out eventually. If you are using computer equipment heavily in an work environment, maintenance should be should be considered, sort of like a office copier? :-) > >dba@cs.cmu.edu -- Jim Kateley Applelink: kateley1 UUCP: {sun, voder, nsc, mtxinu, dual}!apple!kateley CSNET: kateley@apple.COM Disclaimer: What I say, think, or smell does not reflect any policy or stray thought by Apple Computer, Inc. Remember: When you smile :-), the world smiles with you, When you frown :-(, the : and - keys think they are getting picked on
SEB@CRNLNS.BITNET (11/16/87)
David Anderson recently posted to laser-lovers: >A recent issue of MacTutor reported that some (heavily used?) >LaserWriters have been seen to have fuser roller damage caused by >constant contact with the rubber guides above the roller. They said >that there is no known fix for this problem, short of rebuilding the >engine. Does anyone know more about the potential for trouble here? "Rebuilding" is a bit exaggerated. You only need to replace the fuser roller, which can be done by anybody with some mechanical aptitude, the Canon laserprinter hardware manual and a new fuser roller. We've done it several times. We actually have a Talaris 800 Laser Printer, which uses the same Cannon Print Engine as an Apple LaserWriter, slightly modified by Quality Micro Systems for use with their own external graphics controller. Talaris puts their own Font ROMs in the QMS controller. We ordered the following items in June 1986 from Talaris: M115 Maintenance Information Manual $75 M108 Service Data/Parts Manual $38 We ordered the following items in June 1987 from Talaris: Roller, Upper Fixing, RA1-0697-000 $35.10 Claw, Separation, FA2-5938-000 (4ea @1.50) 6.00 Talaris Systems can be reached at PO Box 261580 San Diego, CA 92126 I hope this helps. Selden E. Ball, Jr. Cornell University NYNEX: +1-607-255-0688 Laboratory of Nuclear Studies BITNET: SEB@CRNLNS Wilson Synchrotron Lab ARPA: SEB%CRNLNS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU Judd Falls & Dryden Road HEPnet/SPAN: Ithaca, NY, USA 14853 LNS61::SEB = 44283::SEB (node 43.251)
henry@utzoo.UUCP (11/17/87)
> A recent issue of MacTutor reported that some (heavily used?) > LaserWriters have been seen to have fuser roller damage caused by > constant contact with the rubber guides above the roller. They said > that there is no known fix for this problem, short of rebuilding the > engine. Does anyone know more about the potential for trouble here? We have seen this in our LaserJets. There is no fix in the sense of preventing it from happening, at least not that we know of. However, it is possible to replace either the whole fuser assembly or just the roller. The fuser assembly costs a few hundred $; the roller is much less expensive but replacing it is more work. Our electronics man, who has replaced two rollers for us so far, says that replacing the roller is several hours' work and that replacing the whole fuser assembly isn't trivial. The form of the damage, by the way, is that grooves get worn in the Teflon coating on the roller. Eventually they start to pick up toner, resulting in vertical black streaking. (Oh, also, the rubber guides actually sit below the roller in operation, although they're above it when you open up the fuser to look.) Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!henry
darylm@Zaephod.gwd.tek.COM (Daryl V. McDaniel) (11/20/87)
In article <8711121801.AA08578@brillig.umd.edu> David.Anderson@K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU writes: >A recent issue of MacTutor reported that some (heavily used?) >LaserWriters have been seen to have fuser roller damage caused by >constant contact with the rubber guides above the roller. They said >that there is no known fix for this problem, short of rebuilding the >engine. Does anyone know more about the potential for trouble here? > >--- >dba@cs.cmu.edu My wife uses a HP Laserjet at work, same engine as apple laserwriter. They put about 6000 sheets of paper through it a month. About every three to four months they have to have the roller replaced, $75.00. They tried adding spacers under the cover so that the guides never actually contacted the roller. This caused lots of grief (She doesn't remenber what, it's been over a year) so they removed the spacer and fork over the money. There are some apple laserwriters here that have been in service for a couple years with little visible wear to the roller. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Daryl V. McDaniel (w) tektronix!hammer!darylm Tektronix, GWD Sustaining Engineering 61-215 (503) 685-2298
roy%phri@UUNET.UU.NET (Roy Smith) (11/25/87)
In <8711242034.AA21602@brillig.umd.edu> chuq@SUN.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > I was amused by [Mactutor's claim of fuser roller damage in LaserWriters > from contact with the rubber guides]. Here at Sun we tend to beat LW's > into the ground [...] I've never seen this on the machines here, and I > think if this was a 'common' problem it would have shown up by now. We have exactly the same problem on one of our LW's. It's got 70k copies on it and has developed scratches in the fuser roller where the red rubber stripper fingers contact it. These scratches come out as vertical lines down the length of the paper. We're a bit peeved that we only got 70k copies out of it, but still think the LW's are fine machines. We're not sure what to do with the printer now. We could just keep it for throw-away output (other than the vertical lines, the print quality is still fine), or we could invest the money to get it overhauled. > Mactutor's well known for barking up trees before getting the facts, > especially when it looks like they can get some publicity or make Apple > look bad. [...] For all we know, they're refilling their cartridges with > bad toner or something, and it's corroding their rollers. I've never seen a Mactutor, so for all I know, they may or may not be the sleazy rag Chuq says they are. On the other hand, I think in this case they are 100% correct. We've seen the problem ourselves, and have heard mention of it several times in the past (on Laser-Lovers, I think). It appears to be a well-documented fact that the stripper fingers will indeed scratch the fuser roller after a while (fastidious cleaning of the fingers when you change the cartridge is supposed to help). Also, the other day, a Cannon repair person was here to fix one of our "xerox" machines (a fairly new Cannon NP-4035). The repair person showed me how the (surprise!) fuser roller was getting messed up by the stripper fingers. Maybe there is something endemic in the way Cannon designs fuser roller mechanisms? Chuq may be right about the low-grade tonor being a factor. The particular LW I have in mind has used genuine Apple or HP virgin cartridges for the first 50k or so pages of its life; we've recently switched to refills because we can get them for as low as $45 each, instead of the $100 (or more!) new ones cost. We now have 4 LW's of various ages, all of which use only refilled cartridges, but we don't really have enough experience to say for sure one way or another if refills are the proper way to go. A little math (rough numbers, based on our local experience). A LW costs $3800; if you get the rated 100k papges, that's 3.8 cents per page in capital costs. New cartridges cost $100; if you get the rated 5k pages, that's 2 cents per page in operating costs. Refilled cartridges cost $45 and claim to be overfilled, giving 20% more pages (who knows?, let's assume that's true); if you get the rated 6k pages, that's 0.75 cents per page in operating costs, or a savings of about 1.25 cents per page, or about 1/3 the capital cost per page. So, even if using refills does cut down the life of your printer, as long as it cuts it down by less than a third, you still come out ahead. Your mileage may vary. Final result depends heavily on local prices, depreciation, relative value of capital and operating dollars to your organization, cost to rebuild after fuser roller damage, etc. Print quality from refills varies. Most of the time, it's just as good as new ones. Sometimes, it's a disaster, in which case we return for replacement, but still it's an added hassle. -- Roy Smith, {allegra,cmcl2,philabs}!phri!roy System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
moku@SPHINX.UCHICAGO.EDU (Mark Francillon) (11/26/87)
In article <8711242034.AA21602@brillig.umd.edu> chuq@SUN.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >>A recent issue of MacTutor reported that some (heavily used?) >>LaserWriters have been seen to have fuser roller damage caused by >>constant contact with the rubber guides above the roller. They said >>that there is no known fix for this problem, short of rebuilding the >>engine. Does anyone know more about the potential for trouble here? > >I was amused by this. Here at Sun we tend to beat LW's into the ground >(15,000-20,000 pages a month is not uncommon on the one down the hall). LW's >with 150,000 to 200,000 pages on it are not uncommon. I've never seen >this on the machines here, and I think if this was a 'common' problem it would >have shown up by now. > >For all we know, they're refilling their cartridges with bad toner or >something, and it's corroding their rollers. I don't think this is a problem >I'll lose sleep over just yet. > >Has anyone else seen this problem on a laserwriter? Or is this just >MacTutor's problem? > Yeah, we've got a LW+ with about 120,000 copies that has just the problem described in MacTutor--or rather the problem described in the newest (Nov.) issue, in which someone argues it's not the rubber guides but the separation claws on the underside of the fuser cover that cause the wear on the roller. On ours, the coating on the roller is worn through at four points--which match exactly the spacing of the claws. Bad toner's obviously less likely to corrode the (metal) claws than the rubber guides, and on our LW at least it's been Apple toner all the way. I've been thinking about cannibalizing an old HP Laserjet for a fuser assembly that's in better condition. It looks identical to what's in the LW (except that the top roller doesn't have the orange coating). Anyone know of any reasons why I shouldn't try switching them? Mark Francillon Dept. of Anthropology University of Chicago ...ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!moku [[Editor's note: I am suppressing most of the messages on this topic because it seems to have been beaten into the ground. I'm only forwarding messages that seem to add some additional information to the discussion. --Rick ]]
mkm@JUNE.CS.WASHINGTON.EDU (Mark Murray) (11/26/87)
Regarding the Apple Laserwriter, whether you run Apple cartridges or Milo Minderbinder cartridges through it, there are four areas on the fusing roller that will get gouged out eventually by the separation pawls and result in dark vertical streaks on your output. You have my word on it. The only thing you can do to slow this down is to clean the pawls regularly. If you have a long thin magnetic-tip philips screwdriver, you can probably replace the fusing assembly yourself in about an hour. That fusing assembly, along with many other pieces of hardware in the LW, is identical to that sold by HP for their early Laserjets. I have found the HP2628A service manual (p/n 02686-90904) to be of invaluable service.