strong@WPAFB-AMS1.ARPA (04/27/87)
I have some rather naive networking questions involving TCP/IP and VAXes. 1. Does VMS support TCP/IP through an ethernet interface (DEUNA/DELUA)? If so, is any supporting software (third-party or otherwise) needed? 2. How does TCP/IP over a local area ethernet differ from TCP/IP on the DDN? I know that the DDN uses TCP/IP as its protocol, but that everything must go through an IMP. How does an IMP hook up to a VAX? 3. What do you get when you buy WIN/VX? I know you get the user programs (telnet, ftp, etc.). Does WIN/VX provide the actual TCP/IP implementation for the VAX? Does it come with any specialized hardware? 4. If WIN/VX provides a TCP/IP implementation, is it just for use with the DDN or can it also work over an ethernet LAN? Any informed replies (including pointers to documentation) would be appreciated. Thanks. Gordon (Strong@WPAFB-AMS1.ARPA) ------
oberman@LLL-ICDC.ARPA ("Oberman, Kevin") (04/28/87)
>I have some rather naive networking questions involving TCP/IP and VAXes. There are no naive networking questions. Naive answers are plentiful. This may be one. >1. Does VMS support TCP/IP through an ethernet interface (DEUNA/DELUA)? > If so, is any supporting software (third-party or otherwise) needed? VMS does not support TCP/IP. That support is available only with third party products. Some (e.g. EXCELLAN) use their own hardware and therefore, no DEUNA/DELUA. Others require a dedicated Ethernet device. Some (or at least one) allows a DEUNA to be shared by TCP/IP and DECnet (and maybe several other protocols). >2. How does TCP/IP over a local area ethernet differ from TCP/IP on the > DDN? I know that the DDN uses TCP/IP as its protocol, but that everything > must go through an IMP. How does an IMP hook up to a VAX? TCP/IP, like DECnet, does not specify the physical layer of the network. It may be an IMP. Or an Ethernet. At least one TCP/IP protocol (ARP) is specific to Ethernet. But it is used only to determine physical Ethernet addresses and is not relevent to IMP (or more properly PSN) use. If you connect directly to an ARPA PSN, Ethernet is not involved. A PSN interface is available from ACC. Another way to get to ARPANET is via another system on the Ethernet running EGP (External Gateway Protocol) which is connected to the PSN. This may be any system for which you have the software or it may be a dedicated gateway. We have a Proteon. It seems to have some problems, but Proteon is working on them. >3. What do you get when you buy WIN/VX? I know you get the user programs > (telnet, ftp, etc.). Does WIN/VX provide the actual TCP/IP implementation > for the VAX? Does it come with any specialized hardware? WIN/VX is software that provides a fairly full TCP/IP implementation. It's lifted straight from UNIX 4.2BSD. A 4.3BSD version including domain server and addressing software is reportedly coming soon. It requires no special hardware but can use the ACC interface to the PSN, a dedicated DEUNA, a shared DEUNA, a DMR-11 and a number of others. Several device drivers are optional. (That means they cost extra.) The WIN/VX product is pretty good with a couple of exceptions. 1. Support is expensive and not very good. Fortunately, the documentation is pretty good, so you can generally get along without too much help. But, if you find a bug -- Good Luck! 2. The MAILER works through a poor interface with VMS MAIL. It's a real pain. Wollongong has promised us that the MAILER is being totally re-written. I sure hope so. >4. If WIN/VX provides a TCP/IP implementation, is it just for use with >the DDN or can it also work over an ethernet LAN? I believe this one has already been answered. I should mention that more than one interface may be used at once. The routing tables deceide which one to use. >Any informed replies (including pointers to documentation) would be appreciated. The ultimate source of TCP/IP information is the RFCs which define it. They are available from the National Information Center (NIC) at SRI (NIC.SRI.COM). They may be read across the net via FTP or may be ordered (at a cost) in hardcopy form. The primary standards have been compiled into a large book which is available for about $150 from either NIC or maybe DDN office in Washington. I'm afraid I don't remember which. Len Bozak of Stanford (one of the long time TCP/IP people) usually runs a pre-symposium seminar at DECUS US NAtional Symposia. That's where I get started on TCP/IP. Good luck in the Connectivity Wars. While TCP/IP leaves some things to be desired (in my opinion), it has one huge feature. IT WORKS! For more people, on more systems than any other network protocol suite. DECnet is great. But not much use on an HP or DG system. You can get TCP/IP for most any system you may have around. R. Kevin Oberman Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory arpa: oberman@lll-icdc.arpa (415) 422-6955 (Disclaimer--I don't have any association with any company named above except as a customer. I'm not recommending any of them. What works best probably depends on your specific system configuration and needs. My boss (Uncle Sam) would get most upset if I recommended any product on his time. ------