[comp.os.vms] RMS last accessed

YATES@a.chem.upenn.EDU ("John H. Yates") (04/28/87)

 Is there any way to retrieve the last accessed date for files? I know
last revised is available, but haven't found if RMS keeps the last
time a file was simply read.
 I at one time considered archiving user files that had not been accessed
in n days, but gave up when the hook did not seem to exist.
 I know it would slow down i/o and for this reason may not be available,
and yes, I know users could easily beat the archive system, by copying
their files to nl: , etc. , but what they don't know will help me free up
disk space.
  John

carl@CITHEX.CALTECH.EDU.UUCP (04/29/87)

 >  Is there any way to retrieve the last accessed date for files? I know
 > last revised is available, but haven't found if RMS keeps the last
 > time a file was simply read.
To answer your question literally: no.  However, you CAN get at a date that
is related to the last accessed date; namely the expiration date.  You can
set two parameters for any given volume that determine how the expiration
date is computed.  For more information, type the command:
	$ HELP SET VOLUME/EXPIRATION

rick@NGP.UTEXAS.EDU (Rick Watson) (04/29/87)

> Is there any way to retrieve the last accessed date for files? I know
>last revised is available, but haven't found if RMS keeps the last
>time a file was simply read.

Look at SET VOLUME /RETENTION=.

It will probably do what you want.

Rick Watson
University of Texas Computation Center
 arpa:   rick@ngp.UTEXAS.EDU   rick@ngp.ARPA
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 phone:  512/471-3241

dp@JASPER.PALLADIAN.COM (Jeffrey Del Papa) (04/29/87)

    Date: Mon, 27 Apr 87 22:08 EST
    From: "John H. Yates" <YATES%a.chem.upenn.edu@cis.upenn.edu>

     Is there any way to retrieve the last accessed date for files? I know
    last revised is available, but haven't found if RMS keeps the last
    time a file was simply read.
     I at one time considered archiving user files that had not been accessed
    in n days, but gave up when the hook did not seem to exist.
     I know it would slow down i/o and for this reason may not be available,
    and yes, I know users could easily beat the archive system, by copying
    their files to nl: , etc. , but what they don't know will help me free up
    disk space.
      John

the file system does not currently record that time. Every time someone asked Andy
Goldstien for it he groaned and muttered about doubling the number of disk hits. He
really doesn't want to. It has been on the decus wish list for years.

<dp>

DHASKIN@CLARKU.BITNET (Denis W. Haskin, Manager, Technical Services) (04/29/87)

From:         "John H. Yates" <YATES%A.CHEM.UPENN.EDU@CIS.UPENN.EDU>

>  Is there any way to retrieve the last accessed date for files? I know
> last revised is available, but haven't found if RMS keeps the last time
> a file was simply read.

No, for reasons you mention below, among others.  What about security
and protection codes?  Being able to update the last-accessed date
would require modify access to the file (or is it the parent
directory), and how does one handle that when the user looking at the
file only has read priv and no modify priv?

>  I at one time considered archiving user files that had not been
> accessed in n days, but gave up when the hook did not seem to exist.
>  I know it would slow down i/o and for this reason may not be available,
> and yes, I know users could easily beat the archive system, by copying
> their files to nl: , etc. , but what they don't know will help me free
> up disk space.

We thought about it too and gave up.  When you start investigating, you
will probably find that any system is highly unlikely to be worth the
amount of time you are going to have to put into it.  We purge files a
few times per year and it's holding us (though admittedly only just --
remember that disk use will invariably expand to fill available disk
space).  Appeal to your user community's sense of camaraderie and the
concept of *shared* resources and the like (how about posting a list of
the worst offenders?  Nothing like a little peer pressure!).

I would add that commercial archiving products seem to be maturing
to the point where we may start considering one (and what about
the rumors that DEC has one that they use in-house all the time?).


% Denis W. Haskin                             Manager, Technical Services %
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% DHASKIN@CLARKU.BITNET   Office of Information Systems     (617)793-7193 %
% Clark University               950 Main Street      Worcester MA  01610 %
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RAY@CRVAX.SRI.COM.UUCP (04/30/87)

I was just looking at this information last night...If you look in the
System Manager's Reference, Vol. 5A, on page 7-32 in section 7.8.1,
Setting File Expiration Dates, you will find 

	"You can simulate the maintenance of "access dates," available
	in some other operating systems, by setting the retention periods
	to very small values (for example, 1 hour).  Note, however, that
	doing so will incur substantial overhead in the file system
	in updating expiration dates so frequently."

The go on further to describe the general technique of doing automatic
file migration.

Ray

RAY@CRVAX.SRI.COM.UUCP (04/30/87)

I was just looking at this information last night...If you look in the
System Manager's Reference, Vol. 5A, on page 7-32 in section 7.8.1,
Setting File Expiration Dates, you will find 

	"You can simulate the maintenance of "access dates," available
	in some other operating systems, by setting the retention periods
	to very small values (for example, 1 hour).  Note, however, that
	doing so will incur substantial overhead in the file system
	in updating expiration dates so frequently."

The go on further to describe the general technique of doing automatic
file migration.

Ray
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