[comp.os.vms] Error in MicroVMS Users Manual

zhu@ogcvax.UUCP (Jianhua Zhu) (09/10/87)

This question may sound stupid to most people reading this newsgroup,
since I am totally new both to the VMS system and as a system maintenance
personnel.

On page 1-23 of the MicroVMS User's Manual (Vol.1), there is a step by
step procedure describing how to perform a full system backup. The first
step reads as follows:

  1. If the system is running, shut it down as explained in Section 1.1.2.

Is that an error? My understanding (very limited) is that after the system
is shutdown, the control is transfered to the console monitor, which
dosen't (?) understand commands such as INITIALIZE, MOUNT or BACKUP.

Since this is the first time I do a full system backup, I thought I'd be
cautious and ask first. Could someone tell me who is right, the manual
or me?

Thanks in advance.

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carl@CITHEX.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) (09/12/87)

 > This question may sound stupid to most people reading this newsgroup,
 > since I am totally new both to the VMS system and as a system maintenance
 > personnel.
 > 
 > On page 1-23 of the MicroVMS User's Manual (Vol.1), there is a step by
 > step procedure describing how to perform a full system backup. The first
 > step reads as follows:
 > 
 >   1. If the system is running, shut it down as explained in Section 1.1.2.
 > 
 > Is that an error? My understanding (very limited) is that after the system
 > is shutdown, the control is transfered to the console monitor, which
 > dosen't (?) understand commands such as INITIALIZE, MOUNT or BACKUP.

You should have continued reading further.  The next step is to boot standalone
backup, which understands the BACKUP and ONLY the BACKUP command.  On the
other hand, you don't necessarily need a standalone backup.  Except in the
case that a file is open for update in such a way that it may be rendered
inconsistent (software that takes full advantage of RMS capabilities usually
doesn't have this problem; software ported from other operating systems
may), you can simply do a "BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK" instead.

kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein) (09/15/87)

  The manual is right. It's talking about a STAND-ALONE backup. This is done
in order to have NO files open during backup, to ensure complete accuracy.
You MUST have a Stand-alone Backup created  - or, in the case of Micro-Vaxen,
there's a special way to boot (can't remember the command right now, I can
check on Monday if you like). What happens it that the systems boots a very
abbreviated OS which has no memory management, process control, or anything.
All it can do is do backups. When you're done, you reboot the system again 
normally.
  You really only need to do this with your system disk. Any others you 
should be able to do with your users kicked off, or late at night, or whatever.
Backup will compain if if encounders open files. IGNORE=INTERLOCK will allow
you to back them up, but /VERIFY will complain if anything happens to them in
the mean time. Personally, I only do standalones once a month or so. Most of
the files that are open (see SHOW DEVICES/FILES) are not critical anyway.
But it's just possible to have something important get clobbered, so every
so often, we bring 'er down for a couple of hours or so...

  Hope this helps. Backup can be frustrating :-)


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/kenw
                                                                 A L B E R T A
Ken Wallewein                                                  R E S E A R C H
                                                                 C O U N C I L


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