IMHW400@INDYVAX.BITNET (01/08/88)
The lack of COMPLETE definitions of system facilities and structures for the non-MACRO, non-BLISS programmer really bugs me, too. It is possible to find all the definitions in the proper .MLB and .REQ files, but I've had to do the translations (mostly to C) myself. It seems that the basketful of scraps that have been thrown to us C programmers *never* includes the symbols that I wanted (GETUAI/SETUAI, PSM, SMB, etc.). I am slowly building up a library of .H files for these things (tinkered up from the MACRO modules with an editor and much elbow grease), but this is obviously a fragile and temporary solution. I think that the trouble is that SDL, which is used to create the definitions for MACRO and BLISS, has never been completely extended to support other languages. Part of the reason for this is that it would be a *lot* of hard work in some cases, and perhaps impossible in others. If you look hard enough, you can probably find .SDL sources on your system; think about how one might translate SDL to C, including all the nasty masks and bits.... On the other hand, the result would quite possibly be worth the effort, buying a lot of customer goodwill. (DEC persons should feel free to comment if allowed.) Bottom line: DEC, please extend SDL to *all* supported languages, or find some other way to allow us to build tools in the language best suited to the task. (Maybe extend CDD?) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mark H. Wood IMHW400@INDYVAX.BITNET (317)274-0749 III U U PPPP U U III Indiana University - Purdue University at Indianapolis I U U P P U U I 799 West Michigan Street, ET 1023 I U U PPPP U U I Indianapolis, IN 46202 USA I U U P U U I [@disclaimer@] III UUU P UUU III
JOE@FHCRCVAX.BITNET (Joe Meadows) (01/10/88)
>I think that the trouble is that SDL, which is used to create the definitions >for MACRO and BLISS, has never been completely extended to support other >languages. Actually, SDL is used to generate the Fortran and Basic definitions. I guess I could agree that there not 'completely' integrated, but I don't think it's SDL's fault.. If you ever do an SDL/NOPARSE/DUMP on an SDL module (grab one out of STARARLETSD.TLB) you'll see that there's more than enough info there to create beautiful include files. It is the language developers choice as to how to use this info I guess. For some reason the C developers haven't writted an SDL module yet, which is a shame.. Which brings me to the next subject, has anybody tried to write a program to either read the binary SDL files, or interface with the SDL program like the BASIC and FORTRAN developers have done? If anybody know what I am talking about, and has any ideas on the subject, please get in touch with me, I think that will be my next project.. i.e. Given the following command procedure: $ Library/Ext='p1 Sys$Library:Starletsd.Tlb/out='p1'.sdi $ Define/nolog Sdl$Share sdl$dir $ Define/nolog SdlFortra sdl$dir:Sdlfortra.Exe $ SDL/NoParse/Lang=(Fortra='p2') 'p1'.sdi I would like to replace the SDLFORTRA.EXE image with my own.. (Note that SDLFORTRA.EXE is included in the Fortran distribution, but not saved after the installation) >Bottom line: DEC, please extend SDL to *all* supported languages, or find >some other way to allow us to build tools in the language best suited to >the task. (Maybe extend CDD?) Perhaps documenting either the file format or the format of the routine that gets called via SDL/Noparse/LANG=() would be enough. Of course, DEC would probably prefer to make money by selling SDL as a separate product.. Of course, another drawback to all of this is that only the modules from STARLET are included in the VMS distribution, I'd like to see the LIB modules as well.. Cheers, Joe Meadows joe@fhcrcvax.bitnet
hydrovax@nmtsun.nmt.edu (M. Warner Losh) (01/12/88)
In article <8801091111.AA04662@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, IMHW400@INDYVAX.BITNET writes: > The lack of COMPLETE definitions of system facilities and structures for > the non-MACRO, non-BLISS programmer really bugs me, too. It is possible > to find all the definitions in the proper .MLB and .REQ files, but I've > had to do the translations (mostly to C) myself. My solution: find the place where the symbol is defined. Extract that module from the relevant library. Go into TPU and do a replace on $EQU with a # define. This doesn't catch all of the stuff. I found that there are some .h files that have bit structures defined for the relevant field, so I think that SDL might already do that for you. ????? Another solution: Buy the Wollon gang's TCP/IP. They give you a whole directory of .h files that were generated with a program that they wrote. Maybe we could get them to distribute it, if DEC doesn't come up with a solution. The only drawback is that it won't work with other languages (but who uses RPG for system programming anyway??? :-D). -- bitnet: lush@nmt.csnet M. Warner Losh csnet: warner%hydrovax@nmtsun uucp: ...{cmcl2, ihnp4}!lanl!unmvax!nmtsun!warner%hydrovax ...{cmcl2, ihnp4}!lanl!unmvax!nmtsun!hydrovax Warning: Hydrovax is both a machine, and an account, so be careful.
kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein) (01/19/88)
>>I think that the trouble is that SDL, which is used to create the definitions >>for MACRO and BLISS, has never been completely extended to support other >>languages. > Actually, SDL is used to generate the Fortran and Basic >definitions. I guess I could agree that there not 'completely' >integrated, but I don't think it's SDL's fault.. If you ever >do an SDL/NOPARSE/DUMP on an SDL module (grab one out of Awright, guys, I give up. What's SDL? It's not in the Master Directory, and it's not in my DEC Dictionary. The system responds to '$ SDL' with '_File:', and there's an SDLNPARSE.EXE in SYS$SYSTEM, but no help that I can find. Curiosity is going to kill this cat :-). /kenw