GERLAND@UBVMSC.CC.BUFFALO.EDU ("Jim Gerland ", Postmaster) (06/14/88)
EDUSIG, the Education Special Interest Group of DECUS, has established
a very good working relationship with Digital Equipment Corporation. This
relationship has grown out of both of our desires to provide better computing
services to the educational community.
Following is a letter from Ardoth Hassler, the Vice-Chair of EDUSIG to
the Manager of Education Computer Systems/State and Local Government for
Digital expressing some of our concerns regarding workstations. This letter
is the result of meetings held at the Fall DECUS Symposium in Anaheim.
Further discussions were held at the Spring DECUS in Cincinnati.
I just returned from meetings in Marlboro between EDUSIG and the Educational
Services group of Digital which were (in my opinion) very fruitful for both
parties.
As the newest member of the EDUSIG Steering Committee, I would like to
solicit opinions about the current state of workstations at your site and
any future plans your site may have.
I am sending this query to INFO-VAX, LIAISON, and EDUSIG-L. Please forgive
me if you receive multiple copies. I ask that if you are not the person at
your institution responsible for workstations to please pass this on to the
correct person. Please send your comments to EDUSIG-L@UBVM.
Future discussions on this topic and many other EDU related topics will be
conducted on the list EDUSIG-L@UBVM. To join this discussion list send mail
to LISTSERV@UBVM with the command 'SUBSCRIBE EDUSIG-L your real name' as the
only line in the body of the mail.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Jim Gerland (EDUSIG Session Notes Editor)
University Computing Services
State University of New York at Buffalo
Buffalo, NY 14260 (716) 636-3557
...............letter from Hassler to Digital Manager of EDU...............
DIGITAL EQUIPMENT COMPUTER USERS SOCIETY
Education Special Interest Group
February 4, 1988
Manager of Education Computer Systems/State and Local Government
Digital Equipment Corporation
Marlboro, Massachusetts
Dear Sir:
At the Fall DECUS Symposium in Anaheim, a Birds of a Feather
session on "Workstations in Education" was held. Twenty-five
representatives from a wide range of educational institutions
attended (list enclosed). Michael Greene and Bruce Augenstein also
attended. The notes from that BOF have been circulated to the
attendees and a few other very interested people. This letter is a
product of that meeting and the resulting comments that have been
given to me over the Internet, BITNET and telephone. We, as the
users and purchasers of Digital's workstations, want you to accept
our input and have it influence Digital's policies toward the sale
of workstations to educational institutions.
The issues from the BOF fell into seven categories:
1. Content of the Offerings
Regarding the content of the Education Software Library,
there is confusion over what is available from Digital. Not
all VAX software is available through the Library. Users
expressed that it is desirable to have the library include all
VAX software or to at least give institutions the ability to
choose a fixed number of items from the total. Many expressed
the desire to use the ESL to try new things in a school, citing
that the current offerings are already popular. A faculty
member may want to experiment with BLISS, for example, on a
small system. This may not be practical on a large cluster.
Education needs "a little of a lot" of packages. As always,
cost is a big factor.
Confusion was also expressed over how ESL and the
VAXstation program integrate and overlap. Digital could ease
this confusion by providing its Sales Representatives with some
worksheets with examples that demonstrate how a school might
take advantage of these offerings.
In all, attendees felt that the ESL is a "good start".
Right now it is strictly rental; institutions are concerned
about the effect on budgeting if Digital cancels the library
program since it currently offers no lease/purchase option or
guarantees of licensing.
2. Institutional Issues
Digital's policy has been that there be, essentially, one
contract per institution and one point of contact for
participants in the ESL program. This presents problems for
many institutions. For example, a University may have a
medical center, a law school and other institutes in addition
to its main computing function. These units function
semi-autonomously. This makes it difficult for them to take
advantage of some programs. Bookkeeping becomes a significant
issue. Telephone support and distribution from a central site,
not equipped for either, is difficult. The attendees
acknowledged that the institution must assume some
responsibility in return for good prices, but agreed that they
would like Digital to examine these issues from the
institution's viewpoint. Some type of "appeals process" on
individual site problems regarding licensing issues and other
problems is desired. Digital might consider some slightly
increased cost for allowing multiple support centers within an
institution. However, the cost should not be a flat multiple
of the base cost.
3. Cost of Purchase and On-Going Support
As you know, educational institutions are notorious for
always wanting something (everything?) for nothing. This group
acknowledged that we don't want everything for nothing but that
we do want to see Digital's products compete with other
vendors' products. Pricing and packaging are significant
issues because the prices of so many Unix-based systems from
other vendors are so attractive. While there are many all Unix
shops, many would like to be all VMS. The VMS shops are forced
to support two operating systems when they would like to
support only one--VMS.
On-going support is a significant issue. Currently, Sun
Microsystems sells software support to educational institutions
for $2,500 per year for 100 SUN workstations. Digital does not
compete with this at all. Institutions are very pleased with
Digital's one year warranty plan. However, they are very
concerned about what happens after the first year when the
warranty is gone. They are very concerned that their users
will drop support after the first year because on-going support
costs are so high.
4. Offerings for Smaller Institutions
ESL is currently open only to sites with 25 or more
VAXstations. What is Digital going to do to provide similar
support to smaller institutions who do not buy in this quantity?
5. Multiuser Systems
It is not uncommon for a workstation owner to want a
multiuser license. Digital's current marketing philosophy is
that workstations are for a single user. The user may or may
not want to use the workstation as a timesharing system. In
many cases, s/he just wants to occasionally have someone log in
to look at a file, etc. Sun Microsystems, for example, makes
no distinction about the number of users on a workstation.
All VAXes need to be included in licensing and price
considerations. As one user puts it, "it is embarrassing to
have a VAX-780 (or VAX-8700 for that matter) with no software
on it and workstations with a ton of it!"
6. Other Issues
Issues mentioned, also relating to price, were the fact
that the cost to add disks and tapes is very expensive. The
cost for the software to boot a VAXstation from a VAX-8XXX is
greater than the cost of the VAXstation itself!
Users would also like to see Digital influence third party
vendors on price issues as well. It has been our observation
that third party vendors follow Digital's lead in pricing policies.
7. Futures
This meeting was time limited and as such was mostly
devoted to issues, problems and concerns that exist today.
However, a few "futures" were expressed. Two issues stood out.
First, the issue of laptop compatibility and the proliferation
of AT (80286) and 80386 machines. A battery powered VAX for
less than $2,500 is desired. There is significant concern over
compatibility between home and office. A VAX at this price
would help address this concern. Second, users would like
Digital to improve its role in the management of personal
computer networks. VAX oriented software is needed and it must
be affordable.
EDUSIG plans to form a working group to further address issues
relating to workstations strictly from the viewpoint of educational
institutions. DECUS is also forming a working group to look more
globally at workstation issues and futures. Both have as their
goal to influence Digital's plans and policies regarding
workstations. To this end, you should consider creating a forum
where several users can discuss these issues and concerns with
Digital, before changes are made to existing programs or new ones
are implemented. I am sure that a session could be arranged in
Cincinnati in conjunction with the Spring DECUS Symposium, or
earlier. We want to work with Digital to assure that education has
the tools needed not only for today but tomorrow as well.
Sincerely,
Ardoth A. Hassler
EDUSIG Vice-Chair and
Acting Workstation Coordinator
Assistant Director for Academic Services
Computer Center
The Catholic University of America
Copy: Robert Shive, EDUSIG Chair
Michael Greene, Digital; EDUSIG Counterpart
Bruce Augenstein, Digital
EDUSIG Executive Committee Members
DECUS Workstations Working Group
Interested EDUSIG Members (list attached)
Steven Stepanek Calif. State Univ., Northridge (ComSci)
Frank Kirstein Canisius College
Ardoth Hassler The Catholic University of America
Charles White Guilford College
Stan Baer Harvard University
Pete Boysen Iowa State University
Margaret Wilke Michigan State University (Engineering)
Robert Shive Millsaps College
Shava Nerad MIT
Paula Barnes NC School of Science and Mathematics
Jim Gerland State University of New York at Buffalo
Leslie Maltz Stevens Institute of Technology
Don Fuhr Tuskegee University
Henry Brasey University of Cincinnati
Jack Suess University of Maryland (Baltimore)
Jennifer Fajman University of Maryland (College Park)
John Vilandre University of Minnesota (Public Health)
Martin Feinstein University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Margaret Knox Univ. of Texas at Austin
Clyde T. Poole Univ. of Texas at Austin (Computer Science)
Barbara Maaskant UT Health Sciences Center (San Antonio)
Mona Jensen Walla Walla College
H. David Todd Wesleyan University
Rochelle Lauer Yale University (Physics)