[comp.os.vms] Workstation Questions

GERLAND@UBVMSC.CC.BUFFALO.EDU ("Jim Gerland ", Postmaster) (06/14/88)

EDUSIG, the Education Special Interest Group of DECUS, has established
a very good working relationship with Digital Equipment Corporation.  This 
relationship has grown out of both of our desires to provide better computing 
services to the educational community.

Following is a letter from Ardoth Hassler, the Vice-Chair of EDUSIG to
the Manager of Education Computer Systems/State and Local Government for
Digital expressing some of our concerns regarding workstations.  This letter
is the result of meetings held at the Fall DECUS Symposium in Anaheim.  
Further discussions were held at the Spring DECUS in Cincinnati.

I just returned from meetings in Marlboro between EDUSIG and the Educational
Services group of Digital which were (in my opinion) very fruitful for both
parties.

As the newest member of the EDUSIG Steering Committee, I would like to
solicit opinions about the current state of workstations at your site and
any future plans your site may have.  

I am sending this query to INFO-VAX, LIAISON, and EDUSIG-L.  Please forgive
me if you receive multiple copies.  I ask that if you are not the person at
your institution responsible for workstations to please pass this on to the
correct person.  Please send your comments to EDUSIG-L@UBVM.

Future discussions on this topic and many other EDU related topics will be
conducted on the list EDUSIG-L@UBVM.  To join this discussion list send mail
to LISTSERV@UBVM with the command 'SUBSCRIBE EDUSIG-L your real name' as the
only line in the body of the mail.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Jim Gerland  (EDUSIG Session Notes Editor)
University Computing Services
State University of New York at Buffalo
Buffalo, NY   14260      (716) 636-3557

...............letter from Hassler to Digital Manager of EDU...............
                  DIGITAL EQUIPMENT COMPUTER USERS SOCIETY
 
                      Education Special Interest Group
 
                              February 4, 1988

     Manager of Education Computer Systems/State and Local Government
     Digital Equipment Corporation
     Marlboro, Massachusetts
 
     Dear Sir:
 
          At the Fall DECUS Symposium in Anaheim, a Birds of a Feather
     session on "Workstations in Education" was held.  Twenty-five
     representatives from a wide range of educational institutions
     attended (list enclosed).  Michael Greene and Bruce Augenstein also
     attended.  The notes from that BOF have been circulated to the
     attendees and a few other very interested people.  This letter is a
     product of that meeting and the resulting comments that have been
     given to me over the Internet, BITNET and telephone.  We, as the
     users and purchasers of Digital's workstations, want you to accept
     our input and have it influence Digital's policies toward the sale
     of workstations to educational institutions.

          The issues from the BOF fell into seven categories:
 
     1.  Content of the Offerings
 
              Regarding the content of the Education Software Library,
         there is confusion over what is available from Digital.  Not
         all VAX software is available through the Library.  Users
         expressed that it is desirable to have the library include all
         VAX software or to at least give institutions the ability to
         choose a fixed number of items from the total.  Many expressed
         the desire to use the ESL to try new things in a school, citing
         that the current offerings are already popular.  A faculty
         member may want to experiment with BLISS, for example, on a
         small system.  This may not be practical on a large cluster.
         Education needs "a little of a lot" of packages.  As always,
         cost is a big factor.
 
              Confusion was also expressed over how ESL and the
         VAXstation program integrate and overlap.  Digital could ease
         this confusion by providing its Sales Representatives with some
         worksheets with examples that demonstrate how a school might
         take advantage of these offerings.
 
              In all, attendees felt that the ESL is a "good start".
         Right now it is strictly rental; institutions are concerned
         about the effect on budgeting if Digital cancels the library
         program since it currently offers no lease/purchase option or
         guarantees of licensing.
 
     2.  Institutional Issues
 
              Digital's policy has been that there be, essentially, one
         contract per institution and one point of contact for
         participants in the ESL program.  This presents problems for
         many institutions.  For example, a University may have a
         medical center, a law school and other institutes in addition
         to its main computing function.  These units function
         semi-autonomously.  This makes it difficult for them to take
         advantage of some programs.  Bookkeeping becomes a significant
         issue.  Telephone support and distribution from a central site,
         not equipped for either, is difficult.  The attendees
         acknowledged that the institution must assume some
         responsibility in return for good prices, but agreed that they
         would like Digital to examine these issues from the
         institution's viewpoint.  Some type of "appeals process" on
         individual site problems regarding licensing issues and other
         problems is desired.  Digital might consider some slightly
         increased cost for allowing multiple support centers within an
         institution.  However, the cost should not be a flat multiple
         of the base cost.
 
     3.  Cost of Purchase and On-Going Support
 
              As you know, educational institutions are notorious for
         always wanting something (everything?) for nothing.  This group
         acknowledged that we don't want everything for nothing but that
         we do want to see Digital's products compete with other
         vendors' products.  Pricing and packaging are significant
         issues because the prices of so many Unix-based systems from
         other vendors are so attractive.  While there are many all Unix
         shops, many would like to be all VMS.  The VMS shops are forced
         to support two operating systems when they would like to
         support only one--VMS.
 
              On-going support is a significant issue.  Currently, Sun
         Microsystems sells software support to educational institutions
         for $2,500 per year for 100 SUN workstations.  Digital does not
         compete with this at all.  Institutions are very pleased with
         Digital's one year warranty plan.  However, they are very
         concerned about what happens after the first year when the
         warranty is gone.  They are very concerned that their users
         will drop support after the first year because on-going support
         costs are so high.
 
     4.  Offerings for Smaller Institutions
 
              ESL is currently open only to sites with 25 or more
         VAXstations.  What is Digital going to do to provide similar
         support to smaller institutions who do not buy in this quantity?
 
     5.  Multiuser Systems
 
              It is not uncommon for a workstation owner to want a
         multiuser license.  Digital's current marketing philosophy is
         that workstations are for a single user.  The user may or may
         not want to use the workstation as a timesharing system.  In
         many cases, s/he just wants to occasionally have someone log in
         to look at a file, etc.  Sun Microsystems, for example, makes
         no distinction about the number of users on a workstation.
 
              All VAXes need to be included in licensing and price
         considerations.  As one user puts it, "it is embarrassing to
         have a VAX-780 (or VAX-8700 for that matter) with no software
         on it and workstations with a ton of it!"
 
     6.  Other Issues
 
              Issues mentioned, also relating to price, were the fact
         that the cost to add disks and tapes is very expensive.  The
         cost for the software to boot a VAXstation from a VAX-8XXX is
         greater than the cost of the VAXstation itself!
 
              Users would also like to see Digital influence third party
         vendors on price issues as well.  It has been our observation
         that third party vendors follow Digital's lead in pricing policies.
 
     7.  Futures
 
              This meeting was time limited and as such was mostly
         devoted to issues, problems and concerns that exist today.
         However, a few "futures" were expressed.  Two issues stood out.
         First, the issue of laptop compatibility and the proliferation
         of AT (80286) and 80386 machines.  A battery powered VAX for
         less than $2,500 is desired.  There is significant concern over
         compatibility between home and office.  A VAX at this price
         would help address this concern.  Second, users would like
         Digital to improve its role in the management of personal
         computer networks.  VAX oriented software is needed and it must
         be affordable.

          EDUSIG plans to form a working group to further address issues
     relating to workstations strictly from the viewpoint of educational
     institutions.  DECUS is also forming a working group to look more
     globally at workstation issues and futures.  Both have as their
     goal to influence Digital's plans and policies regarding
     workstations.  To this end, you should consider creating a forum
     where several users can discuss these issues and concerns with
     Digital, before changes are made to existing programs or new ones
     are implemented.  I am sure that a session could be arranged in
     Cincinnati in conjunction with the Spring DECUS Symposium, or
     earlier.  We want to work with Digital to assure that education has
     the tools needed not only for today but tomorrow as well.
 
                                   Sincerely,
 
                                   Ardoth A. Hassler
 
                                   EDUSIG Vice-Chair and
                                      Acting Workstation Coordinator
 
                                   Assistant Director for Academic Services
                                   Computer Center
                                   The Catholic University of America
 
     Copy:  Robert Shive, EDUSIG Chair
 
            Michael Greene, Digital; EDUSIG Counterpart
 
            Bruce Augenstein, Digital
 
            EDUSIG Executive Committee Members
 
            DECUS Workstations Working Group
 
            Interested EDUSIG Members (list attached)
 
     Steven Stepanek            Calif. State Univ., Northridge (ComSci)
     Frank Kirstein             Canisius College
     Ardoth Hassler             The Catholic University of America
     Charles White              Guilford College
     Stan Baer                  Harvard University
     Pete Boysen                Iowa State University
     Margaret Wilke             Michigan State University (Engineering)
     Robert Shive               Millsaps College
     Shava Nerad                MIT
     Paula Barnes               NC School of Science and Mathematics
     Jim Gerland                State University of New York at Buffalo 
     Leslie Maltz               Stevens Institute of Technology
     Don Fuhr                   Tuskegee University
     Henry Brasey               University of Cincinnati
     Jack Suess                 University of Maryland (Baltimore)
     Jennifer Fajman            University of Maryland (College Park)
     John Vilandre              University of Minnesota (Public Health)
     Martin Feinstein           University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
     Margaret Knox              Univ. of Texas at Austin
     Clyde T. Poole             Univ. of Texas at Austin (Computer Science)
     Barbara Maaskant           UT Health Sciences Center (San Antonio)
     Mona Jensen                Walla Walla College
     H. David Todd              Wesleyan University
     Rochelle Lauer             Yale University (Physics)