[comp.os.vms] InfoServer 100 and License Implications

ggondor@cedar.pfc.forestry.ca (Guy Gondor) (06/07/91)

Greetings:

We have been trying to purchase a InfoServer 100.  It is impossible to
get a single story from a Digital Rep.  We have talked to at least 2
sales reps, 2 techs, 1 tele-sales rep and checked an electronic
bulletin board all providing different stories.  

Our immediate problem is determining what will happen to our license costs.
We have been told we would see cost savings but today another Digital rep
phoned and advised me our license costs will increase.  Our problem is
that we have numerous Vax's across Canada, belonging to a single
organization.  We have right-to-copy licenses for our software, but
Digital is now saying that if you want to buy the consolidated
software, you have to discontinue the right-to-copy license and buy a
license with full support (you may be able to get away without phone
support).  In fact, this same Digital sales rep mentioned that Digital
plans to disolve all other forms of media distribution in the next
year or two, and disolve right-to-copy licenses.  This will undoubtly
result in additional equipment purchases and for some, additional
dollars to pay for annual software maintenance and support.

I agree with having media available on CD-Rom only.  Sun is doing it,
but they are also offering sites CD Roms at a reduced cost, and a
reduction in software license costs.  It appears Digital is pricing
themselves out of the market.  Does anyone have any comments on this
or heard anything similiar ?  Does someone in Digital who really does
know something about the InfoServer and license implications care to
address this ?
-- 
Guy Gondor
Internet: ggondor@PFC.Forestry.CA

gwlester@cpu.com (Gerald Lester) (06/07/91)

I can speak for what is valid in the U.S., Canada (any any other country) is a
different ball of wax.

In the U.S. CD Rom gives you the Media.  You must still by some type of 
"support" to be able to legally apply it.  "Right-to-copy" gives you the right
to make a single copy the MEDIA or a subset thereof.

I.E. you need some level of support for each NODE. Self-maintenance is in the
catalogs and you may be able to get a quote on it.

The problem is that Digital is going through a re-org and may be internally
confused on this/these issues.  DECUS (U.S.) has at least two (2) groups 
interested in this issue, you may want to get involved with them.  They are
the Business Practices (BP) UIG and the Third Providers Party (3P) SIG.  You 
can send mail to the following person if you are interested in working in this
area:

	mayhew@dcs.decus.org

Gerald W. Lester
Third Party Provider's Communication Committe Representative

grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) (06/08/91)

In article <1991Jun7.024621.8218@cedar.pfc.forestry.ca> ggondor@cedar.pfc.forestry.ca (Guy Gondor) writes:
> Greetings:
> 
> We have been trying to purchase a InfoServer 100.  It is impossible to
> get a single story from a Digital Rep.
...
> I agree with having media available on CD-Rom only.  Sun is doing it,
> but they are also offering sites CD Roms at a reduced cost, and a
> reduction in software license costs.  It appears Digital is pricing
> themselves out of the market.  Does anyone have any comments on this
> or heard anything similiar ?  Does someone in Digital who really does
> know something about the InfoServer and license implications care to
> address this ?

Well, I just got some junk mail from DEC today advertising a deal that
combined the the el-cheapo single slot CDROM drive with ultrix media
and on-line doc.  Admittedly, you need a SCSI capable workstation to
hang the thing on and I don't know whether a parallel offer will be
avaiable for VMS or if this is just an apology for not having Ultrix
support for the infoserver (yet?)...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)

jeh@cmkrnl.uucp (06/08/91)

In article <22268@cbmvax.commodore.com>, grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
> Well, I just got some junk mail from DEC today advertising a deal that
> combined the the el-cheapo single slot CDROM drive with ultrix media
> and on-line doc.  Admittedly, you need a SCSI capable workstation to
> hang the thing on and I don't know whether a parallel offer will be
> avaiable for VMS or if this is just an apology for not having Ultrix
> support for the infoserver (yet?)...

How much?  

Speaking of Ultrix... rumor hathit that the Berzerkely folks (including their
legal department) have decided that there isn't any AT&T code left in BSD 4.4...

... so it's gonna be REAL CHEAP.  Like a few hundred dollars for tapes.

Worth getting just to play around with, if you have a spare disk you can turn
into a Unix bootable volume.

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
Chair, VMS Internals Working Group, U.S. DECUS VAX Systems SIG 
Internet:  jeh@dcs.simpact.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,scubed,decwrl}!simpact!cmkrnl!jeh

lhotka@incstar.com (06/10/91)

ggondor@cedar.pfc.forestry.ca (Guy Gondor) writes:
> Greetings:
> 
> We have been trying to purchase a InfoServer 100.  It is impossible to
> get a single story from a Digital Rep.  We have talked to at least 2
> sales reps, 2 techs, 1 tele-sales rep and checked an electronic
> bulletin board all providing different stories.  
> 
> Our immediate problem is determining what will happen to our license costs.

We found that it was difficult to get good answers from Digital as well...
In the end we sat down with our account rep who does the service contract
work and had her really run out the numbers.

In our case (we are in the U.S.) we are saving some money in media costs
and have retained our right to copy so we can use the software on our
other machine.

I went through virtually the same stuff though - conflicting reports
about what was what and how it worked and how much it would cost and
what version of VMS was needed, and ...

I think the trick is to quit talking to the sales reps and go talk to
the person who handles your service contract.  They should be able to
give you the real story with less sales hype and pressures.  That is
pretty much true for any company - the sales force rarely gives the
full story if they even have it, but if you can reach the real people
in the company you can get some good service.

 Rockford Lhotka                                INCSTAR Corp
 Applications Project Leader                    1990 Industrial Blvd
 lhotka@incstar.com                             PO Box 285
 612/779-1701                                   Stillwater, MN 55082
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