templon@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (jeffrey templon) (11/21/90)
OK, I will quit crossposting to news.groups for now. Thanks. I will also put in my two cents' worth about the 'what do we then do with unix-pc.general' debate. I say, cut 'er loose. I am aware of the argument that people will be forced to take a whole heirarchy (comp) in order to get comp.sys.3b1. My best information says that this is not true; apparently it is not a simple thing to select only a few groups, but then neither is setting up HDB with a telebit. Soon after comp.sys.3b1 is established I bet some person will post a 'guide to extracting comp.sys.3b1 ONLY during a news feed' just like we now have 'HDB_modem.Z' at cheops. In my opinion, the benefits outweigh the extra difficulty, especially since we should be able to heave our collective wisdom at the problem of taking only a select few groups as feed out of the whole mess. That takes care (in my mind) of the argument saying 'we NEED to still have unix-pc.*'; I have not addressed 'we need to CUT LOOSE unix-pc.*'. I'll do that now. The reasoning is simple - if we keep unix-pc.* around, and it is gatewayed with comp.sys.3b1, then we will still get all the 'how do i hook up unix on my PC?' messages. For me, this was the primo consideration for changing the name. This was someone else's point, sorry I can't remember just who or I'd ack. The remaining out for unix-pc.* would be to propose that it NOT be gatewayed to comp.sys.3b1, or that the gateway would only be one way (from comp.sys.3b1 into unix-pc.general but not the other way 'round.) I don't think that our vote will pass on news.groups if this sort of thing takes place; they always seem to be concerned with issues like 'why doesn't rec.video already fill this need?', etc. I believe that if we propose to keep unix-pc.general around for ANY REASON except as an alternate naming for comp.sys.3b1 then we will fail. Also I think it is counterproductive to split the group in two. OK, I've had my daily two bucks' worth (inflation) - I am sure others will have things to say about this. Have a good day. Jeff
dave@dms3b1.uucp (Dave Hanna) (11/22/90)
In article <73513@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> templon@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (jeffrey templon) writes: > I am aware of the argument >that people will be forced to take a whole heirarchy (comp) in order to >get comp.sys.3b1. My best information says that this is not true; apparently >it is not a simple thing to select only a few groups, but then neither is >setting up HDB with a telebit. This should be a non-issue. Getting a small subset of groups is easy if the news administrator at your feed knows _anything_ about it. He just edits the "sys" file entry for your site and lists (explicitly) the groups you want, or alternatively, lists broad classes of groups (e.g., comp, rec, soc, etc.) and then lists explicitly the exceptions by prefixing them with an exclamation point (e.g., comp.sys,!comp.sys.ibm would feed all "comp.sys" groups except for the comp.sys.ibm hierarchy). So if all you wanted was the 3b1 groups, the news administrator at your feeding site would just list in your sys entry comp.sys.3b1, comp.sources.3b1 (or whatever we end up naming them). If you already are receiving a partial feed that is satisfactory, but you want to start getting these groups, he just adds those to the list of groups you are getting. > Jeff -- Dave Hanna, Infotouch Systems, Inc. | "Do or do not -- There is no try" P.O. Box 584, Bedford, TX 76095 | - Yoda (214) 358-4534 (817) 540-1524 | UUCP: ...!letni!dms3b1!dave |
kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) (11/24/90)
In article <73513@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> templon@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (jeffrey templon) writes: >I am aware of the argument that people will be forced to take a whole >heirarchy (comp) in order to get comp.sys.3b1. My best information >says that this is not true People often insist on arguing over things they know nothing about, though I confess ignorance of there having been a debate over this point. Fortunately, your information is correct. If you currently receive the unix-pc newsgroups on your machine, your news feed (or feeds) has a "sys entry" (an entry in the file /usr/lib/news/sys, generally) which resembles yourhost: ... ,unix-pc, ... or possibly (and incorrectly) yourhost: ... ,unix-pc.all, ... Assuming comp.{sys,sources}.3b1 is created, your feed could switch to the following if you don't already receive comp.* yourhost: ... ,comp.sys.3b1,comp.sources.3b1, ... or better yet yourhost: ... ,comp.all.3b1.all, ... I prefer the latter as it covers both groups in one stroke plus any future 3b1 groups that might appear. >we should be able to heave our collective wisdom at the problem of >taking only a select few groups as feed out of the whole mess. I'm sure some people will still whine that it's unbearably difficult to set up a feed of *just* UNIX PC groups, but such arguments are based entirely on ignorance and/or laziness. I think I've addressed the first issue here, or at least provided the ammunition with which to deal with it. Alas, I don't have any ideas on how to deal with the latter problem. (Maybe a different news feed?) >I have not addressed 'we need to CUT LOOSE unix-pc.*'. I agree with your arguments against keeping unix-pc.* if the new groups in comp.* are created. However, it might still be of some benefit to keep unix-pc around as a *distribution*, like world, na, usa, and the like. In fact, this point may explain the gaps in connectivity of the unix-pc.net if use of 'unix-pc.all' in sys entries is prevalent (as opposed to the corrent 'unix-pc'). >I believe that if we propose to keep unix-pc.general around for ANY >REASON except as an alternate naming for comp.sys.3b1 ... For the short term aliasing unix-pc.{general,bugs,uucp} over to comp.sys.3b1 might be helpful, but long term this negates the desire to escape the Unix-on-a-*86 crowd. I would be inclined to keep unix-pc.* for some grace period, then remove the groups but add aliases to the comp.*.3b1 groups, then cut unix-pc.* loose entirely (but perhaps keep unix-pc as a distribution). Maybe a month per phase? -- Karl Swartz |UUCP {uunet,decwrl}!daver!ditka!kls 1-408/223-1308 |INet kls@ditka.chicago.com (home) "I never let my schooling get in | kls@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu (work) the way of my education."(Twain) |Snail 1738 Deer Creek Ct., San Jose CA 95148
kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) (11/29/90)
In article <1990Nov22.041358.28114@dms3b1.uucp>, dave@dms3b1.uucp (Dave Hanna) writes: > > This [getting a small subset of newsgroups] should be a non-issue. > Getting a small subset of groups is easy > if the news administrator at your feed knows _anything_ about it. He > just edits the "sys" file entry for your site and lists (explicitly) > the groups you want, or alternatively, lists broad classes of groups > (e.g., comp, rec, soc, etc.) . . . . Well, several of the facilities I've worked at had people in charge of news who didn't know much about it, and who didn't have time to become an expert. I found some dopey things in my sys file yesterday, if I hadn't had time, I wouldn't have looked. I expect there to be some changeover pains (it sounds like we are really going to do this conversion to me), but there may be some big gains in quality distribution. But maybe not as much as we'd think; see the followup to my call for distribution testing. -Kris