[net.news] Proposal for USENET Organization

kiessig (12/28/82)

	Attention Netnews Site Administrators:

        I am interested in establishing a USENET Central Organization,
and am enclosing a description of a set of services.  I am interested
in four things at this point: (1) your input on these ideas, (2)
whether you feel that you could convince your site to join for the
proposed fee (and if not, why and would a lower fee be more
acceptable), (3) whether or not your site would accept assistance
in reducing their USENET-related phone bill (and the approximate
amount thereof, if available), and (4) which services listed below
you are least/most interested in.

***     PLEASE RESPOND DIRECTLY TO ME BY MAIL ONLY:  ***

	megatest!fortune!kiessig        or
	harpo!fortune!kiessig           or
	dsd!fortune!kiessig

	I will provide a summary of replies to the network.  If
there is sufficient interest, I will follow this up with more
details (how much we can do depends largely on how many sites
are willing to contribute).  I will wait seven days for all
replies to trickle in (until Jan. 3, 1983) before generating
a summary of replies.

	The basic goals of this organization are:

	1. Help reduce the load on the network, thereby reducing
	   costs.

	2. Attempt to offset costs incurred by major network
	   switching nodes, and eventually replace them with
	   dedicated machines.

	3. Increase network efficiency, making the network more
	   usable by more people.

	4. Make the information on the network more available
	   to more people, including those who don't yet have
	   machines.

	Services to be provided by the USENET Central Organization:


	1. Membership rates

		Memberships would be available for $5/person/month.
		For a site with 10 netnews users, this is $50/month.

	2. Help offset costs of the network

		Ways to reduce data transmission costs would be
		researched.  Subscriber sites would be provided
		with funds to help offset costs of major traffic
		routes (decvax <=> ucbvax, etc.), until local
		switching nodes are installed.

	3. Getting questions answered

		A new newsgroup or mailing list (or both) will be
                used for asking all of the "standard" questions
                (similar to the net.experts previously proposed).  A
                group of people at NetCentral would answer all
                questions submitted.  This would reduce overall load
                on the net by having an outlet for newcomers who want
                to know where "foobar" came from.  If NetCentral can't
                answer a question, it will be resubmitted to the
                appropriate list.  When users see a question submitted
                by NetCentral, they'll know they only have to answer
                once, and that at least a little research went into it
                before it was posted to the net.

	4. New software

		Members will receive regular updates for software.
		This includes updates to news, notes and uucp.  Requests
		for changes to software would be discussed over a
		newsgroup like net.news.sw.

	5. Digestification service

		For newsgroups which decide that they would rather
		interact in digest form, NetCentral will provide
		a digestification service.

	6. Mailing lists

		NetCentral will maintain several mailing lists,
		established on an as-needed basis on request
		of subscribers.

	7. Network gateways

		As need demands, gateways to other networks will be
		provided.  Telenet, Tymenet, ARPAnet are all possibilities.
		Exact connections will depend on total funding and
		the needs of the Membership.

	8. Provide copies of netnews articles by US mail.

		Subscriptions will be offered for groups of netnews
		articles.  Mailings will take place once or twice
		a week, depending on volume.  Rates will be just enough
		to handle copying and mailing costs, and will be
		separate from normal subscription rates.  A small
		newsletter describing current NetCentral activities
		will also be available by US mail.

	9. Provide a query/reply service by US mail

		Subscribers will be able to reply to articles they
		see by US mail.  They will also be able to generate
                queries.  Charges would be in the area of $1 per
                query, to handle labor involved.  Computer generated
		input (on floppies, say) would be accepted.  Queries
		will be "screened" before being submitted to the net
		(i.e. answered first, if possible).

	10. Provide a central news switching center

                Something like a 68000-based UNIX machine with lots of
                disk, some modems, autodialers, etc. will be made
                available to members.  The "ihave"/"sendme" feature
                would of course be available, possibly to be used in
                conjunction with a US mail subscription.  As more
                sites subscribe, these local swiching nodes should
                largely replace current big network hubs like decvax,
                ucbvax and harpo.

	11. Map / Site Directory Maintenance

		Unless the current maintainers of site directories
		and network maps wish to continue their work,
		NetCentral will take over maintenance of these
		items.  Similar directories for UUCP sites will
		also be established.  These will be available
		as published documents from NetCentral (like the
		ARPAnet Directory), and will also be submitted
		to net.news.map, as is currently done.


***     ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE RESPOND DIRECTLY TO ME BY MAIL ONLY:  ***

Rick Kiessig

megatest!fortune!kiessig        or
harpo!fortune!kiessig           or
dsd!fortune!kiessig

bc (12/30/82)

I like the concept of some central organization taking over the
maintenance of the net, but I wonder if we would not be re-inventing
the wheel.  It seems to me that all the features described in the
USENET Corp. proposal will be provided by CSNET and its relatives.  I
think this alternative needs to be investigated.   If there is anyone
out there with the info, please post here or mail to me for
summarization and posting the answers to the following questions:

1.  What exactly will be the services and features of CSNET?
2.  What will the charges be?
3.  How does a site apply for connection to CSNET?  Especially small
    sites?
4.  How does one instantiate a net based on the CSNET model (a la
    CHEMNET, etc.)?  Converting usenet over might be painful, but a
    UN*XNET starting from scratch, and delimited from CSNET might be
    practical.



				Bruce Cohen
				Intel
				usenet:
				...{pur-ee,hplabs}!intelqa!omsvax!bc
				ARPAnet:
				hplabs!intelqa!omsvax!bc@UCB-C70

mel (12/31/82)

The Usenet, Inc. proposal (I advocate a sub-organization of
Usenix, Inc. with participation of /usr/group and Software
Tools) in no way can be handled by CSNET.  CSNET has enmeshed
itself with ARPANET and its hundreds of amateur lawyers to foist
restrictions (real and imagined) onto the network world.  We
need an organization to enhance communication, not inhibit.
  Mel Haas  ,  houxm!mel

lepreau (01/01/83)

Oh brother.  Certainly the amount of communication in this epitome of
anarachy, the uucp net, is remarkable.  But the amount of lost mail and
unreplyable cc lists and absurdly long paths is just as remarkable.  I
am sick and tired of people proclaiming that standards are for the
birds.  That may well be fine, and certainly fun, when hacking away at
software on one machine, but IT FAILS TOTALLY WHERE NETWORKS ARE
CONCERNED!  If you don't agree on a common protocol then you can't talk.
It's that simple.  And if you don't agree on some sort of standards then
you will have zilch reliablity and convenience.  Every goddamn uucp site
between you and me is perfectly free to throw this mail on the floor (as
uucp does all the time, never mind rmail) and never tell anyone.  And if
someone redoes uucp and mail making them reliable and functional and
give them away only half the sites will install them within a year. 
Yeah, it's real nice having no central control.

But it's not going to last forever that way.  Happy New Year.

-Jay Lepreau  (also at lepreau@utah-cs.  Where we have just converted to
arpa-dictated new protocols as of this morning.  And we will survive and
probably even benefit!)