[comp.windows.x] X Novice Proposal

mark@drd.UUCP (Mark Lawrence) (09/13/88)

I've seen a few requests lately from self-identified novices essentially 
requesting X mentor pen-pals as they struggle with X in the interest of
conserving network bandwidth and preserving S/N ratio.  I am in that
same boat and this post represents a 'me too' request.  I am at the
point of using widgets to create simple composite widgets and such but am still
treating some aspects of X as black box and would like to know more.  It
would really be beneficial and efficient for me if someone would would permit 
me to fire off single question notes and questions to them which could be 
answered on short turn-around.

The point is that I am just the tip of the iceberg.  My company has
decided fairly early on that X windows is the way to go NOW (not
sometime in the future) and is committed to developing some applications
now, therfore I am up to my neck in X application development _now_. I think 
that we are atypical as far as small software vendors go and that as 
X-Windows matures and becomes more generally used in the next two years, 
this group is going to see a veritable flood of novice X window application 
software types joining the newsgroup and inundating it with novice-type 
questions.  I wonder if it wouldn't behoove us to establish a pool of X 
window guru volunteers to take novices under their electronic wing to handle 
the questions about fundamentals that are bound to arise?   I would gladly
volunteer in about 6-9 mos time after having enough experience with the 
software to be _able_ to answer fundamental questions.

This group is pretty good reading now because of the authoritative
sources who read it and because of the meaty questions and answers
posted in it.  I'm for keeping it that way.  Perhaps we should do the
atypical thing (for USENET) and anticipate the future flood with
preparation and procedure now.

			Mark



-- 
 DRD Corporation @ 5506 South Lewis  |   [uunet!apctrc,romed,tulsun]!drd!mark
 Tulsa, IT 74105      (918)743-3013  |       mlawrence@jarsun1.ZONE1.COM

bob@allosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Bob Sutterfield) (09/13/88)

In article <264@drd.UUCP> mark@drd.UUCP (Mark Lawrence) writes:
>I've seen a few requests lately from self-identified novices
>essentially requesting X mentor pen-pals as they struggle with X...
>It would really be beneficial and efficient for me if someone would
>would permit me to fire off single question notes and questions to
>them which could be answered on short turn-around.
>
>The point is that I am just the tip of the iceberg...  I wonder if it
>wouldn't behoove us to establish a pool of X window guru volunteers
>to take novices under their electronic wing to handle the questions
>about fundamentals that are bound to arise?

Given that X is such a commercially-viable bandwagon in so many other
ways, it sounds like there are some major bucks to be made by
consultants placing themselves in just such a position.  Several such
people and organizations will probably contact you as a result of your
note, offering you their services.

With free software and free advice, you get what you pay for.  While
there will hopefully always be free software and advice available,
this sort of personalized volunteer mentoring arrangement you describe
would require a larger commitment of time, effort, and responsibility
than most of us casual news readers-and-repliers are ready or able to
provide.  Our employers expect us to provide our expertise to them,
and only incidentally (if at all) to the rest of the world.

>I would gladly volunteer in about 6-9 mos time after having enough
>experience with the software to be _able_ to answer fundamental
>questions.

Wonderful, and more power to you!  I truly hope a cadre of such
volunteers arises.  Unfortunately, I suspect that such a group would
have problems with quality control, responsiveness, and all the normal
things you expect from a professional support organization.  Again:
you get what you pay for.

I hate to sound like a wet blanket, but this industry is very, very
commercial and competitive.  People are making money from every aspect
of it.  Finding people to volunteer to do that for which they could be
paid, and to do it as well as they would if they were being paid, will
be difficult (there's usually another motive involved).  I hope it's
not impossible.  I wish I could volunteer, but I've got lots of other
irons in the fire (interestingly enough, some of them are volunteer
consulting) and I'm a relative novice in X-land myself.
-=-
Zippy sez,								--Bob
Yow!  Now we can become alcoholics!

mark@drd.UUCP (Mark Lawrence) (09/14/88)

bob@allosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Bob Sutterfield) wrote:
%% ...
%% With free software and free advice, you get what you pay for.  While
%% there will hopefully always be free software and advice available,
%% this sort of personalized volunteer mentoring arrangement you describe
%% would require a larger commitment of time, effort, and responsibility
%% than most of us casual news readers-and-repliers are ready or able to
%% provide.  Our employers expect us to provide our expertise to them,
%% and only incidentally (if at all) to the rest of the world.
%% <and so on>

I meant to address two goals:

	1.  Coming up with a means for _occasionally_ obtaining answers 
	from someone who understands the 'bigger scheme' of things without 
	having to parade my ignorance before the whole net.

	2.	Creating a scheme that helps keep the newsgroup free of such
	clutter from others like me who are bound to join.

Of course, the first point is most important to me *now* :-).  I
acknowledge the truth of Bob's first statement and echo the sentiments of
the last statement.  However, we participate in USENET out of a fundamental 
interest in the free exchange of ideas, knowledge and what-have-you, and
since I'm writing this and you're reading this, I suggest that there is a 
common good to be derived by addressing the issue.  

I'd thought also about a comp.windows.x.questions or .d type of
newsgroup modeled after comp.unix.questions, but I am loathe to propose
YANG (yet another newsgroup).  I'm curious as to whether anybody else
shares these concerns.  I'll admit that I'm all for 'free lunches' (who
on the receiving end of such deals isn't), but that there are other
reasons to consider the issue.

			Mark

-- 
 DRD Corporation @ 5506 South Lewis  |   [uunet!apctrc,romed,tulsun]!drd!mark
 Tulsa, IT 74105      (918)743-3013  |       mlawrence@jarsun1.ZONE1.COM

jensen@gt-eedsp.UUCP (P. Allen Jensen) (09/14/88)

In article <21687@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu>, bob@allosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Bob Sutterfield) writes:
>    .........
> I hate to sound like a wet blanket, but this industry is very, very
> commercial and competitive.  People are making money from every aspect
> of it.  Finding people to volunteer to do that for which they could be
> paid, and to do it as well as they would if they were being paid, will
> be difficult (there's usually another motive involved).  I hope it's
> not impossible. .....

Its not impossible, Bob.  I have posted several "novice" questions, and
every time someone who I would consider an "expert" has mailed me a
reply and been more than happy to help me out (thanks everyone).
I also just received notice of a FREE seminar on X Windows that a
person here at Georgia Tech who is involved in the X Windows development
is going to give (thanks dany).

The X environment provides an excellent operatunity to extend the area
of Technology Transfer.  Based on the large number of programs available
under X that are FREE and well written (for the most part), I think that
we will see more and more good X based software comming from universities.
This should also establish a good base of "experts" to help the novices.

Once again - Thanks to all the people at MIT and elsewhere who have
given their time and effort to help novices.

P. Allen Jensen
X novice hoping to become an expert.

-- 
P. Allen Jensen
Georgia Tech, School of Electrical Engineering, Atlanta, GA  30332-0250
USENET: ...!{allegra,hplabs,ihnp4,ulysses}!gatech!gt-eedsp!jensen
INTERNET: jensen@gteedsp.gatech.edu