fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer) (06/01/89)
Could anyone who has used the GraphOn OptimaX please drop me a line containing any wisdom about whether its a worthwhile X terminal? They use an optmized line protocol between the terminal and a server running on a host machine, i.e. the server does NOT run in the terminal. Reply to me and I'll summarize. Thanks, (ron) PS- Comments about other X terminals also appreciated.
corbet@mead.uucp (Jonathan Corbet) (06/01/89)
fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer): >Could anyone who has used the GraphOn OptimaX please drop me a line >containing any wisdom about whether its a worthwhile X terminal? I spent a couple hours playing with one; here's a few observations: It is not a workstation replacement. There are times when you simply *know* that you are working over a serial line. If you have any users who are fond of putting cute pictures into their root window, this terminal will drive them nuts. Any sort of raster data is very slow. They do not offer a color version, and probably never will. A serial line would be far too slow for that -- it would make the Sun server look very good indeed! :-) Nonetheless, they do amazingly well. Most of the usual operations, such as text, moving windows, etc., are entirely fast enough. ico goes pretty fast, although it exhibits a tendency to accelerate when it goes behind an obscuring window. Clearly they are just being clever and not sending the instructions over the line for vectors which will never be drawn; but it is a little disorienting. The resolution is a bit low for my taste: 600x800. A number of applications that I have gotten to know and love (texx, xmh, etc) do not fit on the screen in a nice way. There is a bug or two left in the system. One of the first things I did was to crash their version of twm, which was immediately followed up by a total halt of the terminal. The salesperson had to call the company to figure out how to reset it. The actual server runs on a Sun or Vax host. The load on that host seems to be relatively small, even when the terminal is being driven to the max. They distribute a reasonably full set of MIT X clients with their system, but they seem to be a little behind in the bug fixes. I managed to kill an xterm by accidentally hitting the right mouse button -- a problem that had a patch out some time ago. It worked nicely with the NCAR graphics system, generating a nice wireframe version of Long's Peak in a short time. Vector graphics are fast, and they look sharp. In summary, I think it can be a useful device for casual X users, who have not been spoiled by having a full workstation or network-based X terminal. Those who use it for text work, or for simple vector graphics, will be happy. I would certainly buy it before I got another dumb monochrome graphics terminal for one of my users. Jonathan Corbet National Center for Atmospheric Research, Field Observing Facility corbet@stout.ucar.edu
faulkner@jmullins.harvard.edu (Don Faulkner) (06/01/89)
In article <3325@ncar.ucar.edu> corbet@mead.uucp (Jonathan Corbet) writes:
Jonathan> They do not offer a color version, and probably never will.
Jonathan> A serial line would be far too slow for that --
Jonathan> it would make the Sun server look very good indeed! :-)
Not necessarily .... the overhead to TRANSMIT a colored line
vs. a monochrome one is about nill (with mono, you still have to say
what color to draw line (white or black), and how it should be placed
(XOR ...) All you would have to do is have an extra byte to say
what color you'd like it to be drawn in.
Now, color pixmaps would be a different story ;-)
--
Don Faulkner
Building 1, Room 803
Harvard University, School of Public Health
665 Huntington Avenue
Boston, MA 02115
ARPA: faulkner%jmullins@harvard.harvard.edu
BITNET: faulkner@harvard
Telephone: (617) 732-2297janssen@titan.sw.mcc.com (Bill Janssen) (06/02/89)
In article <3325@ncar.ucar.edu>, corbet@mead (Jonathan Corbet) writes: >fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer): >>Could anyone who has used the GraphOn OptimaX please drop me a line >>containing any wisdom about whether its a worthwhile X terminal? >... One of the first things I did >was to [...] their version of twm, which was immediately followed up by a "Their" version of twm? Doesn't the normal one work? >In summary, I think it can be a useful device for casual X users, who have >not been spoiled by having a full workstation or network-based X terminal. >Those who use it for text work, or for simple vector graphics, will be >happy. I would certainly buy it before I got another dumb monochrome >graphics terminal for one of my users. There are (at least) two classes of use for these X terminals: 1) replacing a workstation on an Ethernet with a terminal on an Ethernet, or 2) providing a secondary terminal as a supplement for a workstation. The OptimaX sounds like it would be great for home use, connected to a large computer over the phone line, but not so great for workstation replacement work? Bill
wood%phws00.dnet@SMITHKLINE.COM (Bill Wood, SmithKline &French R&D 215-2705163) (06/06/89)
corbet@stout.ucar.edu writes about the Graphon OptimaX X terminal: >It is not a workstation replacement. There are times when you simply *know* >that you are working over a serial line. If you have any users who are >fond of putting cute pictures into their root window, this terminal will >drive them nuts. Any sort of raster data is very slow. Some raster data is quite fast, depending on how well it can be compressed. xphoon is reasonably fast, given the large areas of black in it. Framemaker pages, which are image data, are surprisingly fast. Complex images can take 30-60 seconds to draw. >In summary, I think it can be a useful device for casual X users, who have >not been spoiled by having a full workstation or network-based X terminal. >Those who use it for text work, or for simple vector graphics, will be >happy. I would certainly buy it before I got another dumb monochrome >graphics terminal for one of my users. At 19200 KB I am quite pleased with the terminal for general programming, system maintenance, and day-to-day work. It exhibits a snappy response most of the time, except when it must download a new font, and it pauses for a moment. Text output in particular is very fast, faster than the Sun color server distributed with X11r3. From home, at 9600 baud over a Microcom AX/9624c modem, it is not as snappy but very acceptable. Both from home and at work I have a terminal server between the host and the terminal, which works fine. Network traffic is reduced with the terminal due to a) its low speed (19200 baud is typical, which is aprox. 2000 bytes/sec of terminal server traffic) and b) the fact that the protocol between it and the server is 2-3 times more efficient than the X protocol. The OptimaX can also be used as a regular VT100 terminal with attached printer port. It is nice to have the option of running X or not. The terminal will dump the X screen to a number of different types of attached printers (Thinkjet/Quietjet, Laserjet+, QMS/Talaris, FX-80/FX-100, FX-85/FX-185, Okidata 92/93, Okidata 192/193, Okidata 84, and SIXEL printers). We are thinking at work that the GRAPHON may be the way to bring X to everyone's desk, due to its low cost and serial interface.
rws@EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU (06/06/89)
Text output in particular is very fast, faster than the Sun color server distributed with X11r3. Hmm, that's about like "Molasses is very fast downhill at the North Pole, faster than hardened concrete". :-) I have no idea how fast the GraphOn is, but surely you must be able to come up with a better statement.
wood%phws00.dnet@SMITHKLINE.COM (Bill Wood, SmithKline &French R&D 215-2705163) (06/09/89)
> Text output in particular is very fast, faster than the Sun color server > distributed with X11r3. > >Hmm, that's about like "Molasses is very fast downhill at the North Pole, >faster than hardened concrete". :-) I have no idea how fast the GraphOn is, >but surely you must be able to come up with a better statement. Well, text output approaches the speed of the serial line you are connected to. I haven't done measurements, so I can't say for sure. Text output to the Sun color server on a 386i isn't bad; it's image data and window repaints that are excruciating, in my experience.