yakker@stravinsky.ucr.edu (The Rastafari Yakker) (06/13/89)
Since I am a beginner with X windows, and being that I know only a small
amount in comparison to most of the "gods" out there, I thought I would
throw in a comment or two from what I have seen so far:
1) There seem to be two different groups of people interested in the
comp.windows.x group: 1) Those that have just started in X windows,
who have basic questions ranging from the installation of X to how to
operate and set up new sources correctly. 2) Those that have been work-
ing with X windows for a long time, and have questions that are far
above and beyond the normal users, and work with the actual "guts" of X.
2) The people being introduced to X don't have the proper place to ask
questions. Those that have worked with X for a long time tend to overlook
the ones who have not, and press the magic 'n' button in their newsnet
programs.
3) The people that are experienced with X need to have a place of their
own to talk about things that are important to the advancement of X win-
dows. They need a place to work and discuss the things that are going
to help each other increase the proficiency and usage of X.
After all of this, wouldn't people think it's time to make a new newsgroup?
Perhaps a comp.windows.x.wizards, or a comp.windows.x.d, or something along
these lines. Maybe I'm just a little out of my bounds in questioning this,
but wouldn't it be better for everyone? Comments, please.
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---------------------------------------*--------------------------------------mikeg%monsoon.c3@lanl.gov (Michael P. Gerlek) (06/13/89)
From article <1100@ucrmath.UCR.EDU>,
by yakker@stravinsky.ucr.edu (The Rastafari Yakker):
>
> [commentary on who reads/posts comp.windows.x, etc]
> 2) The people being introduced to X don't have the proper place to ask
> questions. Those that have worked with X for a long time tend to overlook
> the ones who have not...
I disagree - I've only been following this group for a few months, but
most questions (regardless of level) seem to get answered.
> 3) The people that are experienced with X need to have a place of their
> own to talk about things that are important to the advancement of X win-
> dows. They need a place to work and discuss the things that are going
> to help each other increase the proficiency and usage of X.
And as a relative newcomer to X, I find the "future"/"advancements"
discussions just as helpful as "how to _correctly_ determine if I have a
color server".
> After all of this, wouldn't people think it's time to make a new newsgroup?
> Perhaps a comp.windows.x.wizards, or a comp.windows.x.d, or something along
> these lines. Maybe I'm just a little out of my bounds in questioning this,
> but wouldn't it be better for everyone? Comments, please.
Is this really justifiable? comp.windows.x has traffic, but not _that_
much that it should be sorted out. Do you follow comp.os.vms? At least
as much traffic there and the topics covered are much more diverse - and
little commentary on splitting it up into smaller groups.
Side-question: I've heard that MIT runs a mailing list (xpert?). Are there
others? Do things get crossposted, or...?
Recommendation: Split comp.windows.x into 2 new groups:
comp.windows.x.normal, and
comp.windows.x.wheresthepostscriptinterfaces :-)
` M.P.Gerlek (mikeg@watson.c3.lanl.gov) "To tweak, '
` Los Alamos Nat'l Lab / Merrimack College Or not to tweak? '
` Disclaimer: They don't tell me That is the '
` anything worth disclaiming. Question. 'jim@EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU (Jim Fulton) (06/13/89)
> [splitting comp.windows.x] This was discussed (and turned down) just a little while ago. Comp.windows.x is a gateway to the mailing list xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu, administered by the X Consortium staff at MIT. It is our opinion that there would be so much overlap between the two sublists that it wouldn't be worthwhile to try to cleave them. > 2) The people being introduced to X don't have the proper place to ask > questions. That is one of the main reasons for having xpert (and comp.windows.x). > Those that have worked with X for a long time tend to overlook > the ones who have not, Really? I'm usually surprised by the number of responses that people get. Sometimes those of us with the Consortium staff are quiet so that we can get work done (or even just leave our offices), but there are a lot of other people helping out as well. > 3) The people that are experienced with X need to have a place of their > own to talk about things that are important to the advancement of X windows. This is already done on private mailing lists within the Consortium. > After all of this, wouldn't people think it's time to make a new newsgroup? Nope. But, thanks for thinking about ways to help.
converse@EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU (Donna Converse) (06/13/89)
[discussion on the question of splitting comp.windows.x] > Side-question: I've heard that MIT runs a mailing list (xpert?). The xpert mailing list carries the identical messages as are found in comp.windows.x The mailing list consists primarily of redistribution addresses. If you can read this message through subscribing to comp.windows.x there is no reason to be on the xpert mailing list. > Are there others? Do things get crossposted, or...? There are some other public mailing lists, but there is rarely, basically never, any traffic on them. The cross-posting only occurs between comp.windows.x and the xpert list. Donna Converse converse@expo.lcs.mit.edu
rich@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Richard L. Pettit Jr.) (06/13/89)
In article <8906122055.AA07838@expo.lcs.mit.edu> jim@EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU (Jim Fulton) writes: > >> [splitting comp.windows.x] > [adverse reaction to splitting comp.windows.x] > >Nope. But, thanks for thinking about ways to help. May I point out that the X consortium does not have the last word in this matter. Your opinion does not make it so, but thank you for your input. The X Window System has a large enough following at this point, and there are sufficient X Wizards in the world (who are not part of the consortium) for there to be mailing lists independent of MIT. Perhaps some ambitious X-pert would like to be the founding father. "It ain't me." Rich -- rich@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
jim@EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU (Jim Fulton) (06/14/89)
> May I point out that the X consortium does not have the last word in this > matter. As to splitting comp.windows.x, of course not. As to splitting xpert, yes we do. But since we (along with a lot of other people) only get the mailing list, that will be where we (by this I mean everyone on the mailing list side, not just the few of us at MIT) will continue to send messages and respond to questions. If a large chunk of the community isn't be reading the other newsgroup, it probably wouldn't get much use. If a large chunk is, then there is duplication. > The X Window System has a large enough following at this point, and there > are sufficient X Wizards in the world (who are not part of the consortium) This has been the goal all along! > for there to be mailing lists independent of MIT. Most certainly. If somebody wants to create another mailing list and gateway it to the usenet, then that would be fine. We just don't think it is worth the trouble since it will just make two places for people to look for information instead of one. I'd be happy to be proved wrong on this; I'm just skeptical.
rws@EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU (06/14/89)
Those that have worked with X for a long time tend to overlook
the ones who have not, and press the magic 'n' button in their newsnet
programs.
I tend to read everything; I reply to a fair number. I have staff with fairly
explicit responsibilities to deal with certain classes of questions. We do
what we can, "free" to you, subject as always to getting our real work done.mcintyrd@cs.rpi.edu (David McIntyre) (06/14/89)
In article <8906131950.AA00875@expire.lcs.mit.edu> rws@EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU writes: > > Those that have worked with X for a long time tend to overlook > the ones who have not, and press the magic 'n' button in their newsnet > programs. > >I tend to read everything; I reply to a fair number. I have staff with fairly >explicit responsibilities to deal with certain classes of questions. We do >what we can, "free" to you, subject as always to getting our real work done. This is really true. The X newsgroup is one of the few newsgroups where almost every easy or even silly question gets a decent response. I have posted many questions, both difficult and simplistic, and I have gotten answers to all of them, some from the X people and some from others. I have nothing but praise for the people in this group. -Dave Dave "mr question" McIntyre | "....say you're thinking about a plate mcintyre@turing.cs.rpi.edu | of shrimp.....and someone says to office : 518-276-8633 | you `plate,' or `shrimp'......" home : 518-271-6664 |
dsill@RELAY.NSWC.NAVY.MIL (06/17/89)
>From: jim@expo.lcs.mit.edu (Jim Fulton) > >We just don't think it is worth the trouble since it will just make >two places for people to look for information instead of one. > >I'd be happy to be proved wrong on this; I'm just skeptical. Just look at info-unix/unix-wizards. If there was an info-x list, I'd subscribe to it and drop xpert in a flash. I have no need for the nuts 'n' bolts, toolkit programming questions that make up roughly half the bulk of xpert, and I'd love to not have to wade through them all day, every day. I don't think there'd be very much overlap between the two since there is such a clear-cut distinction between them. Info-x would cover novice X installation and use, product availability, and programming (analagous to info-x). Xpert would cover advanced toolkit programming, implementation, and administration. If one wanted the equivalent of today's xpert list, they'd get both. Otherwise they'd get whichever was appropriate. -Dave (dsill@relay.nswc.navy.mil)