[comp.windows.x] Methodology and DECWindows ?

jamet@dsavx1.sinet.slb.COM (Philippe JAMET - DS STE (33) 77-32-64-23 (Ext 106)) (07/20/89)

  We develop applications using DECWindows on VAX-VMS 5.1. We use as much as
possible high level constructs (UIL, DRM, Xt). We use Ada. We are new to
X Window, DECWindow. The problem we face seems to be mostly a documentation
and METHODOLODY problem :

  o DECWindow is a new product. We can find documentation (and examples) about
    XWindow and Xt (although it is more difficult), but nearly nothing about
    DECWindows. The same remark applies for trainning sessions.

    The docs we use are :
    - Xlib Programming Manual, by Adrian Nye, O'Reilly Associates ed
    - Xlib Reference Manual, by Adrian Nye, O'Reilly Associates ed
    - X Window System User's Guide, Tim O'Reilly and al, O'Reilly Associates ed
    - DEC Window documentation set, DEC ed

    Does anybody has a better list of XWindow, Xt, DECwindow books and docs ?
    Are they other mailing lists dealing with X, Xt, DECWindows problems ?

  o keeping track of DECWindow widgets is not easy when the number of objets
    grows over 100.

    What kind of tool can be used to represent/handle a large number of related
    objects (MORE on MACINTOSH, Knowledge Based systems, UIDS ...) ?

  o We lack of basic tools like a screen painter which would help us designing
    a window layout in a graphical manner.

    Is there anything available running on VAX-VMS ?

  o keeping the consistence between UIL items (constants and objects) and
    Ada (it would be the same with any other language) is complex. The 
    solution today is to duplicate these definitions.

    Has anybody come with guidelines or a good solution for this ?

  o Ada binding : the DEC Ada units X_ and DECW_ are a simple translation of
    the C code. DECW_ is not really well suited to Ada. We know of the X and
    Xt binding available in the ASR, but we need to stick with DECWindows.

    Has anybody developed layers on top of X_ and DECW_, with a better type
    checking (packages organized around a widget type, with all the resources
    it offers, in an object oriented manner) ? Is this commercially available ?

  o There is a XUI style guide provided by DEC for the DECWindows users, but
    no methodology guidelines are provided. We would like to find guidelines
    on the following subjetcs :

    + naming conventions (how should I name a widget to make its name non
      ambiguous, so that any programmer can understand at a glance what is it
      for and where it applies). The solution used today is to have a name
      following this convention :
           Module_SubModule_SubSubModule_Description_ObjectType
      e.g. File_Copy_CopyHeader_DBox
           for a dialog_box describing the operation of copying a header in
           the copy push_button of the file option of the main menu bar.

    + communication between UIL and the programming language : when we define a
      (long) list of constants in UIL, how could we use the same list in our
      program ? Should we define all the widgets id in a single widget array,
      or have several array with a scope restricted to the children of a major
      widget (e.g. the push_buttons associated with the pulldown_menus of a
      menu_bar).

    + UIL vs DECWindow high/low level routines vs Xt routines vs Xlib routines :
      it is not obvious on which criteria should we use a widget created by
      UIL or created in the program by a call to various routines. We would
      like to use the generic constructs in Ada, but in the other hand it
      may degrade the performances if we create/destroy widgets instead of
      using existing widgets (the UIL object descriptions are easier to modify
      than modifying the corresponding lines of Ada code).

    + Callbacks : what policy should be used for Callbacks ? Using large
      routines for all the operations of the same type on widgets or many
      small routines restricted to the child of major widgets (e.g. a common
      pulldown_menu routine to pull down the widgets associated with a menu_bar
      or small routines restricted to the widgets of one menu bar).

    + Widgets : the class mechanism implemented is interesting. Has anybody used
      it in conjonction with an `object oriented language' like Ada ? Can we
      reuse widgets and how ?

    Are such methodology guidelines available somewhere ?
    Are we asking the wrong questions ? :-).

    Any help/comments will be appreciated. If the feedback is important I will
    summarize the answer to the net. Thanks.

 Philippe JAMET
 Dowell-Schlumberger  Saint-Etienne  FRANCE
 e-mail : jamet%m_dsavx1%sdr.slb.com@relay.cs.net 
          or jamet@m_dsavx1.sdr.slb.com 
          or jamet%m_dsavx1@sdr.slb.com 

erc@pai.UUCP (Eric Johnson) (07/21/89)

In article <8907201146.AA01501@slcs.SLCS.SLB.COM>, jamet@dsavx1.sinet.slb.COM (Philippe JAMET - DS STE (33) 77-32-64-23 (Ext 106)) writes:
> 
> 
>   o DECWindow is a new product. We can find documentation (and examples) about
>     XWindow and Xt (although it is more difficult), but nearly nothing about
>     DECWindows. The same remark applies for trainning sessions.
> 
>     The docs we use are :
>     - Xlib Programming Manual, by Adrian Nye, O'Reilly Associates ed
>     - Xlib Reference Manual, by Adrian Nye, O'Reilly Associates ed
>     - X Window System User's Guide, Tim O'Reilly and al, O'Reilly Associates ed
>     - DEC Window documentation set, DEC ed
> 
>     Does anybody has a better list of XWindow, Xt, DECwindow books and docs ?
>     Are they other mailing lists dealing with X, Xt, DECWindows problems ?
> 
>  Philippe JAMET
>  Dowell-Schlumberger  Saint-Etienne  FRANCE
>  e-mail : jamet%m_dsavx1%sdr.slb.com@relay.cs.net 
>           or jamet@m_dsavx1.sdr.slb.com 
>           or jamet%m_dsavx1@sdr.slb.com 


Some X11 books I have seen (or seen mentioned) include:

X Window System: C Library and Protocol, Digital Press (called DEC Press
in _Books In Print_, I believe), Scheifler, Gettys, Newman, 1988,
ISBN 1-55558-012-2. (I saw an ad in UNIX Review that looked like
Prentice-Hall is distributing this, too.)

X Window Applications Programming, Eric Johnson (that's me), Kevin Reichard,
MIS: Press, 1989, ISBN 1-55828-016-2 (you can call 1-800-MANUALS in
the USA).

The X Window System: Programming and Applications with Xt, Doug Young,
Prentice-Hall, 1989, ISBN 013-972167-3 (I haven't touched this yet,
I've just seen the ad in UNIX Review).

Introduction to the X Window System, Ollie Jones, Prentice-Hall, 1989,
ISBN 013-499997-5. (Excellent introduction.)

Xlib Programming Manual (Vol. 1), Adrian Nye, O'Reilly & Associates,
1988. (This one is at home, so I don't havce the ISBN number. It usually
comes in a boxed set with vol. 2, below.)

Xlib Reference Manual (Vol. 2), Adrian Nye, ed., O'Reilly & Associates,
1988, ISBN 0-937175-27-7.

X Window System User's Guide (Vol. 3), O'Reilly, Quercia, Lamb, 
O'Reilly & Associates, ISBN 0-937175-29-3. (Not really a programming book).

I any information is incorrect, please contact me. Please also send
me any additions to the list. Thanks.

I hope this helps,
-Eric


-- 
Eric F. Johnson, Prime Automation, Inc. 
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