jamet@dsavx1.sinet.slb.COM (Philippe JAMET - DS STE (33) 77-32-64-23 (Ext 106)) (07/20/89)
We develop applications using DECWindows on VAX-VMS 5.1. We use as much as
possible high level constructs (UIL, DRM, Xt). We use Ada. We are new to
X Window, DECWindow. The problem we face seems to be mostly a documentation
and METHODOLODY problem :
o DECWindow is a new product. We can find documentation (and examples) about
XWindow and Xt (although it is more difficult), but nearly nothing about
DECWindows. The same remark applies for trainning sessions.
The docs we use are :
- Xlib Programming Manual, by Adrian Nye, O'Reilly Associates ed
- Xlib Reference Manual, by Adrian Nye, O'Reilly Associates ed
- X Window System User's Guide, Tim O'Reilly and al, O'Reilly Associates ed
- DEC Window documentation set, DEC ed
Does anybody has a better list of XWindow, Xt, DECwindow books and docs ?
Are they other mailing lists dealing with X, Xt, DECWindows problems ?
o keeping track of DECWindow widgets is not easy when the number of objets
grows over 100.
What kind of tool can be used to represent/handle a large number of related
objects (MORE on MACINTOSH, Knowledge Based systems, UIDS ...) ?
o We lack of basic tools like a screen painter which would help us designing
a window layout in a graphical manner.
Is there anything available running on VAX-VMS ?
o keeping the consistence between UIL items (constants and objects) and
Ada (it would be the same with any other language) is complex. The
solution today is to duplicate these definitions.
Has anybody come with guidelines or a good solution for this ?
o Ada binding : the DEC Ada units X_ and DECW_ are a simple translation of
the C code. DECW_ is not really well suited to Ada. We know of the X and
Xt binding available in the ASR, but we need to stick with DECWindows.
Has anybody developed layers on top of X_ and DECW_, with a better type
checking (packages organized around a widget type, with all the resources
it offers, in an object oriented manner) ? Is this commercially available ?
o There is a XUI style guide provided by DEC for the DECWindows users, but
no methodology guidelines are provided. We would like to find guidelines
on the following subjetcs :
+ naming conventions (how should I name a widget to make its name non
ambiguous, so that any programmer can understand at a glance what is it
for and where it applies). The solution used today is to have a name
following this convention :
Module_SubModule_SubSubModule_Description_ObjectType
e.g. File_Copy_CopyHeader_DBox
for a dialog_box describing the operation of copying a header in
the copy push_button of the file option of the main menu bar.
+ communication between UIL and the programming language : when we define a
(long) list of constants in UIL, how could we use the same list in our
program ? Should we define all the widgets id in a single widget array,
or have several array with a scope restricted to the children of a major
widget (e.g. the push_buttons associated with the pulldown_menus of a
menu_bar).
+ UIL vs DECWindow high/low level routines vs Xt routines vs Xlib routines :
it is not obvious on which criteria should we use a widget created by
UIL or created in the program by a call to various routines. We would
like to use the generic constructs in Ada, but in the other hand it
may degrade the performances if we create/destroy widgets instead of
using existing widgets (the UIL object descriptions are easier to modify
than modifying the corresponding lines of Ada code).
+ Callbacks : what policy should be used for Callbacks ? Using large
routines for all the operations of the same type on widgets or many
small routines restricted to the child of major widgets (e.g. a common
pulldown_menu routine to pull down the widgets associated with a menu_bar
or small routines restricted to the widgets of one menu bar).
+ Widgets : the class mechanism implemented is interesting. Has anybody used
it in conjonction with an `object oriented language' like Ada ? Can we
reuse widgets and how ?
Are such methodology guidelines available somewhere ?
Are we asking the wrong questions ? :-).
Any help/comments will be appreciated. If the feedback is important I will
summarize the answer to the net. Thanks.
Philippe JAMET
Dowell-Schlumberger Saint-Etienne FRANCE
e-mail : jamet%m_dsavx1%sdr.slb.com@relay.cs.net
or jamet@m_dsavx1.sdr.slb.com
or jamet%m_dsavx1@sdr.slb.com erc@pai.UUCP (Eric Johnson) (07/21/89)
In article <8907201146.AA01501@slcs.SLCS.SLB.COM>, jamet@dsavx1.sinet.slb.COM (Philippe JAMET - DS STE (33) 77-32-64-23 (Ext 106)) writes: > > > o DECWindow is a new product. We can find documentation (and examples) about > XWindow and Xt (although it is more difficult), but nearly nothing about > DECWindows. The same remark applies for trainning sessions. > > The docs we use are : > - Xlib Programming Manual, by Adrian Nye, O'Reilly Associates ed > - Xlib Reference Manual, by Adrian Nye, O'Reilly Associates ed > - X Window System User's Guide, Tim O'Reilly and al, O'Reilly Associates ed > - DEC Window documentation set, DEC ed > > Does anybody has a better list of XWindow, Xt, DECwindow books and docs ? > Are they other mailing lists dealing with X, Xt, DECWindows problems ? > > Philippe JAMET > Dowell-Schlumberger Saint-Etienne FRANCE > e-mail : jamet%m_dsavx1%sdr.slb.com@relay.cs.net > or jamet@m_dsavx1.sdr.slb.com > or jamet%m_dsavx1@sdr.slb.com Some X11 books I have seen (or seen mentioned) include: X Window System: C Library and Protocol, Digital Press (called DEC Press in _Books In Print_, I believe), Scheifler, Gettys, Newman, 1988, ISBN 1-55558-012-2. (I saw an ad in UNIX Review that looked like Prentice-Hall is distributing this, too.) X Window Applications Programming, Eric Johnson (that's me), Kevin Reichard, MIS: Press, 1989, ISBN 1-55828-016-2 (you can call 1-800-MANUALS in the USA). The X Window System: Programming and Applications with Xt, Doug Young, Prentice-Hall, 1989, ISBN 013-972167-3 (I haven't touched this yet, I've just seen the ad in UNIX Review). Introduction to the X Window System, Ollie Jones, Prentice-Hall, 1989, ISBN 013-499997-5. (Excellent introduction.) Xlib Programming Manual (Vol. 1), Adrian Nye, O'Reilly & Associates, 1988. (This one is at home, so I don't havce the ISBN number. It usually comes in a boxed set with vol. 2, below.) Xlib Reference Manual (Vol. 2), Adrian Nye, ed., O'Reilly & Associates, 1988, ISBN 0-937175-27-7. X Window System User's Guide (Vol. 3), O'Reilly, Quercia, Lamb, O'Reilly & Associates, ISBN 0-937175-29-3. (Not really a programming book). I any information is incorrect, please contact me. Please also send me any additions to the list. Thanks. I hope this helps, -Eric -- Eric F. Johnson, Prime Automation, Inc. 415 W. Travelers Trail, Burnsville, MN 55337 USA. Phone: +1 612-894-0313. erc@pai.mn.org - or - sun!tundra!pai!erc - or - bungia!pai!erc (We have a very dumb mailer, so please send a bang-!-style return address.)