rprobst@SUN.COM (Richard Probst) (07/08/89)
> Is XView available now? If it is, would someone please tell me where can I ftp > it? If it is not available, does anyone know when will it be available? > > XView is Sun's toolkit for use with View2, their merged Sunview/X11 > > server. It is not yet available, and will be sold by Sun, I believe. > > I don't think it will be PD... XView is Sun's toolkit for use with X11/NeWS, our merged X11 and NeWS server. View2 is a previous name for XView, before our marketing folks gave us a better name. (The confusion about a "merged Sunview/X11 server" may have come from the fact that X11/NeWS also supports all SunView binaries.) Sun will put the XView source on the X11 R4 distribution. Our lawyers tell me that we should not say "public domain", because that has a specific other meaning. Apparently none of the X11 software is PD, legally speaking. But let me be very clear: XView source will be available for free, with no licensing restrictions and no royalty fees. XView source will also be part of System V release 4 (on the graphics supplement tape). And XView libraries compiled for all three Sun architectures will be available from Sun as part of the OpenWindows product family, for the cost of the media and documentation. This software will also be automatically included in future releases of SunOS. We intend to donate the XView source in time for the R4 alpha release. That means the source should be available via ftp by the end of July. It will be in the standard contrib/toolkits sub-tree. Naturally, we will announce the source availability on this mailing list. At the same time, Sun will also donate an OPEN LOOK and ICCCM-compliant window manager. XView is an ICCCM-compliant toolkit, and does not work with some non-ICCCM-compliant window managers (it has been called "righteously compliant"). We intend to donate the OLWM window manager in time for the R4 alpha release. Bug fixes for both XView and OLWM will be contributed in time for the final R4 release. In particular, while XView is quite stable, OLWM is still under development, since this is not the same window manager used with X11/NeWS; this one is being developed specifically for donation to the X community. Its primary goal is to serve as an example of a good ICCCM-compliant window manager. BTW, arrangements have been made to get early copies of XView source to some hardware vendors and ISVs. Ports to about 10 non-Sun systems are already under way. Several of these arrangements call for any changes needed to make XView more portable to be returned to Sun. We will incorporate these changes into the XView source and make this updated version freely available in the future (but perhaps after the R4 release). --Richard Probst (rprobst@sun.com) Manager, XView Engineering
rprobst@SUN.COM (Richard Probst) (08/04/89)
On July 7, I posted:
Sun will put the XView source on the X11 R4 distribution. ...
We intend to donate the XView source in time for the R4 alpha
release. That means the source should be available via ftp by
the end of July. It will be in the standard contrib/toolkits
sub-tree. Naturally, we will announce the source availability
on this mailing list.
I got a response from the X Consortium immediately, reminding me that
I had broken confidentiality by mentioning alpha and beta testing in
public. My apologies; Sun makes this same sort of agreement with our
early testers, and we expect them to keep it; the X Consortium deserves
the same respect.
Now Kee Hinckley from HP/Apollo writes:
I don't see the XView toolkit from Sun on the tape.
Are they still planning to submit it, or is it past the
release date for R4?
And Bob Scheifler replies:
Um, I will discuss the private tape you got in private mail, I
have no idea why you sent this to xpert. Sun has not yet sent
us XView, but we will make it available once they do.
First, it is now clear to me that putting XView source on R4 is
not sufficient to satisfy our intention, which is to make it widely
available as soon as possible. XView source will definitely be on R4,
but R4 will not be generally available until "the end of the year"
(has a more specific date been published yet, Bob?).
Therefore, soon after Sun donates XView source to R4, we will also
place XView source on expo (and other FTP servers) for people to
retrieve before the R4 tape ships. As we make bug fixes to XView
source, we will pass those fixes through to the R4 version, and we
will periodically update the expo version.
But, when? Well, we missed the end of July, obviously. The code
is ready, but we are currently waiting for legal approval.
The XView donation cannot use the standard MIT copyright statement.
First, it includes bitmap fonts from Bigelow&Holmes. Second, if
the XView toolkit is not modified, applications built with it will
comply with the OPEN LOOK graphical user interface specification.
The OPEN LOOK trademark is owned by AT&T. Both of these comments
had to be included in the copyright notice.
The XView copyright must be approved by lawyers from Sun, AT&T,
Bigelow&Holmes, and MIT (since it is not the standard MIT version).
This has taken far longer than anyone could ever have imagined.
As soon as this situation is resolved, we will donate the XView
source to the X community, as a free, product-quality, mature
OPEN LOOK-compliant X toolkit. Please be patient.
And once the source is available, a message will be posted to xpert.
--Richard Probstpeter@polygen.uucp (Peter Ent) (08/04/89)
I work for a small company caught in the middle of the user interface wars. It is war as far as we are concerned: Motif vs XView. We presently have done everything directly on top of Xlib, being dissatisfied with the current set of Xtoolkits and having been working long and hard on the code before X11 appeared. On the next go 'round we will use a toolkit. The question is, "Which one?" The answer I'm afraid is "Both" because we have customers who have VAX, IBM, Sun, and HP workstations. Motif offers some knowns: a user interface language, a style guide, etc. XView offers unknowns. Specifically, does it come with an application independent user interface language like Motif? If it does not, is it the intention to write programs with hard-coded strings, values, and layout? Or are applications supposed to invent their own external representation? If XView does come with a user interface language, PLEASE tell the world about it, else XView may be ignored. Our market also stretches across the seas and customers there like things in their own language, something Motif supports (at least DEC's UIL supports it) easily. If XView doesn't have the same features, someone might just take Motif and change its look and feel to that of OPEN LOOK and solve our problems that way. Peter Ent Polygen Corp.
nazgul@apollo.HP.COM (Kee Hinckley) (08/07/89)
In article <8908032301.AA17427@paba.sun.com> rprobst@SUN.COM (Richard Probst) writes: > >Now Kee Hinckley from HP/Apollo writes: > > I don't see the XView toolkit from Sun on the tape. > Are they still planning to submit it, or is it past the > release date for R4? Um, yes. My apologies for that. I'd been up for two days and just fired it off without thinking. Every few days now I get a bounce message from somewhere on the net and wince when I realize that it was my stupid message, still floating around out there. However, thank you for the information about XView availability. -kee -- ### User Environment, Apollo Computer Inc. ### Public Access ProLine BBS ### ### {mit-eddie,yale}!apollo!nazgul ### nazgul@pro-angmar.cts.com ### ### nazgul@apollo.com ### (617) 641-3722 300/1200/2400 ### I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.