mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) (08/21/85)
In article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) writes: [Many good suggestions (not pertinent) deleted... MRH] > Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" > Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" Neither of these two suggestions seems appropriate to me. First, because they are judgemental. Some of the argument in those files is not flame: do we want to discourage that portion? Second, if newsgroups with flamage should be subgroups of net.flame, we will surrender most of the "natural" classification we are trying to develop for newsgroups. Because we really should have net.flame.politics, net.flame.news.group and net.flame.unix by these standards. A more natural classification would be: Suggestion 7b: move "net.abortion" to "net.politics.abortion" Suggestion 8b: move "net.origins" to "net.sci.origins" There would still be reasons to oppose these moves, though they are minor. For example, there is always a little leakage to parent newsgroups, and these specialty groups were created to keep these topics separate. Also, "origins" is a wonderfully non-committant term; making it sci.origins may imply a goal or standard which some writers would object to or be deterred by, and also may imply scientific validity of writings that some oppose. In conclusion, I like things the way they are now, but would prefer my suggested changes to the originally suggested changes. -- Mike Huybensz ...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh
slerner@sesame.UUCP (Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner) (08/21/85)
They are starting another round of net cleaning - and the following
is under consideration (original article from net.announce):
> Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4)
I do not agree with this proposal. I, for one, am interested in following
the shuttle program as a distint topic, seperate from my general interest
in space. I suspect that a lot of other readers will agree with this.
--
Opinions expressed are public domain, and do not belong to Lotus
Development Corp.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner
{genrad|ihnp4|ima}!wjh12!talcott!sesame!slerner
{cbosgd|harvard}!talcott!sesame!slerner
slerner%sesame@harvard.ARPA mcb@styx.UUCP (Michael C. Berch) (08/22/85)
> Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" > Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" No. Merely because the content of these groups tends towards flamage does not mean flamage should be *encouraged* by renaming them. There are, in fact, a reasonable number of knowledgeable postings in these groups. Michael Berch mcb@lll-tis-b.ARPA {akgua,allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,dual,ihnp4,sun}!idi!styx!mcb
alb@alice.UUCP (Adam L. Buchsbaum) (08/23/85)
Since this has come up, I will post here the jist of what I mailed to Mark and Gene. A while ago (years), net.columbia was dropped in favor of net.space. The public outcry after this happened was such that net.columbia resumed as its own group a few months later. Several times in the past, people have suggested renaming the group (to net.shuttle, net.sts, etc.). Again, people who had been following the group mailed me letters saying they preferred the nostalgical name of net.columbia (as do I). I feel that net.columbia is one of if not the most useful, purposeful (in that I have never seen things stray off on non-related tangents) groups around. So we have need, usage, and desire shown to keep it the way it is. I, too, support keeping this group the way it is. When you have something that works, you shouldn't try to fix it. net.columbia works, so leave it alone! Adam
tower@inmet.UUCP (08/23/85)
/* Written 10:22 pm Aug 20, 1985 by cbosgd!spaf in inmet:net.announce */
/* ---------- "More Newsgroup Changes" ---------- */
Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro"
Has net.astro.expert died?
Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space"
net.eng.space would be better. The space program is a
technological engineering effort more than a scientific one, and
net.sci.astro covers the sience side. The root group net.eng would also
give non-software engineers a home on the net.
Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4)
Yuk, lots of people will hate this. The shuttle is a distinct
part of the space program. It also generates sufficient unique
traffic that it continues to deserve its own group.
How about net.eng.columbia, so it's grouped with net.eng.space?
Len Tower
UUCP: {bellcore,ima,ihnp4}!inmet!tower
INTERNET: ima!inmet!tower@CCA-UNIX.ARPAchuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (08/23/85)
In article <693@cybvax0.UUCP> mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) writes: >In article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) writes: >[Many good suggestions (not pertinent) deleted... MRH] >> Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" >> Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" > >Neither of these two suggestions seems appropriate to me. >Suggestion 7b: move "net.abortion" to "net.politics.abortion" >Suggestion 8b: move "net.origins" to "net.sci.origins" Well, net.politics.abortion is a possibility, but I disagree heavily with net.sci.origins. Both groups tend heavily towards "religious" discussions (quick definition -- any discussion where both sides are talking and neither side is listening). In both groups, there seems to be little attempt to share facts but a lot of work to convince the heathens (definition -- anyone who disagrees with you) regardless of the "facts". net.sci.origins is a very bad name. net.religion.origins would be better, since its main purpose seems to be to allow the creationists a place to attempt to convince otherwise sane people that scientific fact that happens to disagree with the Bible is wrong... chuq -- Chuq Von Rospach nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA {decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4}!nsc!chuqui Son, you're mixing ponderables again
ggc@myriasb.UUCP (Gilles Chartrand) (08/23/85)
>> Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) > > I do not agree with this proposal. .... > ... I suspect that a lot of other readers will agree with this. I agree you completely, I don't even subscribe to net.space but I am very interested in the devellopements of the shuttle program. I hope my 2 bits helps preserve net.columbia. It's not like the newgroup was idle, there's always something in it. Gilles ...!alberta!myrias!ggc
stevenh@tekig4.UUCP (Steve Herring) (08/23/85)
> > Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" > Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" > Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" > Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) I think these four groups are doing just fine the way they are. These groups have enough traffic that they should be their own groups and not be subgroups. Please do not drop net.columbia. It has enough traffic to warrant it's own group. I also don't think that the readers of net.space (those that don't subscribe to net.columbia) would like to have this merger. I also think that net.columbia is one of those groups that a lot of people read but not a lot of people post to. Net.columbia is an ideal group right now. It contains detailed, informative info on the space shuttles without a lot of "garbage" and "bs" like net.space has. Net.columbia has one of the most mature followings on the net. I wish all groups were like this. Don't mess with a group that works. > Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" > Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" These are jokes right? Steve Herring ...!tektronix!tekig4!stevenh
fair@ucbvax.ARPA (Erik E. Fair) (08/25/85)
Why not net.space.shuttle? It is an apt name, which is all imporant in these days of chaos. Naming *is* important. Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair fair@ucbarpa.BERKELEY.EDU
mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) (08/25/85)
In article <3158@nsc.UUCP> chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > Both groups tend heavily towards "religious" discussions (quick definition > -- any discussion where both sides are talking and neither side is > listening). In both groups, there seems to be little attempt to share facts > but a lot of work to convince the heathens (definition -- anyone who > disagrees with you) regardless of the "facts". Were you talking about net.news.group here? By this standard I'd say it should be net.religion.news.group. :-( > net.sci.origins is a very bad name. net.religion.origins would be better, > since its main purpose seems to be to allow the creationists a place to > attempt to convince otherwise sane people that scientific fact that happens > to disagree with the Bible is wrong... Oh, you were talking about net.origins. Well. As I commented before, I like the non-committal nature of "net.origins", and I don't much like branding it "flame" or "religion" very much. I'm not much fonder of prefixing "sci", as that's the putative subject of the debate. Another alternative (that I prefer to "flame", "religion", or "sci") would be net.philosophy.origins, putting the discussion in neutral or maybe appropriate ground. This only if net.origins must change to conserve name space. -- Mike Huybensz ...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh
doug@escher.UUCP (Douglas J Freyburger) (08/26/85)
> > Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) > I do not agree with this proposal. .... > ... I suspect that a lot of other readers will agree with this. I don't think changing the name to "net.space" would be a good idea because it sounds too general, but I am not attached to the nostalga of the name of the first space-worthy shuttle. I'd prefer "net.shuttle". After all, there are several others besides the Columb.a. It is sort of neat to use the columbia name, but I don't think it's any big deal. -- Doug Freyburger DOUG@JPL-VLSI, DOUG@JPL-ROBOTICS, JPL 171-235 ...escher!doug, doug@aerospace, Pasadena, CA 91109 etc. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are far too ridiculous to be associated with my employer. Unix is a trademark of Bell Labs, VMS is a trade mark of DEC, and there are others that I'm probably forgeting to mention.
tomm@asgb.UUCP (Tom Mackey) (08/26/85)
I, too, believe that the shuttle is important enough to warrent a separate
newsgroup. I do not have time to read the more general net.space....I was
fortunate (and proud) to have worked on the HRSI project at LMSC, and will
continue to be an avid shuttle follower.
Tom Mackey ihnp4!sabre!\
hplabs!sdcrdcf!-bmcg!asgb!tomm
{ ihnp4, ucbvax, allegra }!sdcsvax!/
Burroughs Distributed Systems Group Boulder, Coloradorhib@mhuxm.UUCP (irving) (08/27/85)
I'd like to see net.columbia stick around as our news category; I never read net.space. And just to cause controversy, I feel that those who spend much time feeding the newsgroup (i.e. Adam Buchsbaum et al) deserve a larger say than most of us in any renaming debate. Rich Irving mhuxm!rhib AT&T Bell Labs Murray Hill NJ p.s. democracy lives!!
rs@mirror.UUCP (08/28/85)
>/* Written 1:06 pm Aug 23, 1985 by stevenh@tekig4 in mirror:net.news.group */ >I think these four groups are doing just fine the way they are. These groups >have enough traffic that they should be their own groups and not be subgroups. What's wrong with making them a subgroup? I use notes, not news, so I don't know what the problem is; outside of the extra "." what changes? In general, I'm in favor of collapsing astro,physics,space,columbia, into subgroups in net.sci. (N.b., net.sci.columbia; maybe net.space.columbia if not?) Perhaps we could collapse net.{abortion,women,singles,motss} into net.soc, for social issues? It seems a very valid classsification, but two drawbacks come to mind: a) the name makes it easy for overloaded sites to determine which groups to cut :-) and b) it might encourage creation of even more groups (e.g., not.soc.disabled). I think the projects thing is best handled as a set of distributed mailing lists, with (monthly?) updates appearing in net.announce; otherwise it becomes two unwieldy. In fact, there already is such a group in existance -- working on a project that all netters should have a great deal of interest in: GNU. (Briefly, the "Gnu's Not Unix" project is an attempt to write a public-domain Unix(tm)-like system. If you don't think there's something in that for everyone, then...) Contact rms@mit-eddie for more info. -- Rich $alz {mit-eddie, ihnp4!inmet, wjh12, cca, datacube} !mirror!rs Mirror Systems 2067 Massachusetts Ave. 617-661-0777 Cambridge, MA, 02140 "Just a little site on the fringe, trying to make notes a better place for news..."
dbrown@avsdT.BERKNET (Dennis Brown) (08/29/85)
> I, too, believe that the shuttle is important enough to warrent a separate > newsgroup. I do not have time to read the more general net.space....I was > fortunate (and proud) to have worked on the HRSI project at LMSC, and will > continue to be an avid shuttle follower. > > > Tom Mackey ihnp4!sabre!\ > hplabs!sdcrdcf!-bmcg!asgb!tomm > { ihnp4, ucbvax, allegra }!sdcsvax!/ > Burroughs Distributed Systems Group Boulder, Colorado I wish to keep in touch with this important project and don't want to or have time to mill through all the other items in net.space, please leave well enough alone!!!!!!!!
friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) (08/29/85)
In article <416@mhuxm.UUCP> rhib@mhuxm.UUCP (irving) writes: >I'd like to see net.columbia stick around as our news category; I never >read net.space. And just to cause controversy, I feel that those who >spend much time feeding the newsgroup (i.e. Adam Buchsbaum et al) deserve >a larger say than most of us in any renaming debate. > It seems that my interpretation of this suggestion was a lot different than many people's. I do *not* think he was suggesting *merging* net.culumbia with the *current* net.space. He seemed to be suggesting *renaming* the group as net.space *after* moveing the current net.space to net.sci.space, thus keeping them seperate. Most of the no votes I have seen have seemed to assume he was suggesting a merger of the groups. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!friesen ARPA: ttidca!psivax!friesen@rand-unix.arpa
jww@sdcsvax.UUCP (Joel West) (08/29/85)
> I'd like to see net.columbia stick around as our news category; I never > read net.space. net.space.shuttle makes the most sense of all ideas I've seen on this.
meier@srcsip.UUCP (Christopher M. Meier) (08/31/85)
>They are starting another round of net cleaning - and the following >is under consideration (original article from net.announce): > >> Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) > >I do not agree with this proposal. I, for one, am interested in following >the shuttle program as a distint topic, seperate from my general interest >in space. I suspect that a lot of other readers will agree with this. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner I am curious, why net.columbia instead of net.shuttle? I also do not agree with the proposal, for the same reasons as stated above. Christopher Meier Honeywell S&RC/SIP/AI ihnp4!umn-cs!srcsip!meier
ggc@myriasb.UUCP (Gilles Chartrand) (09/02/85)
> ... I do *not* think he was suggesting > *merging* net.culumbia with the *current* net.space. He seemed to be > suggesting *renaming* the group as net.space *after* moveing the > current net.space to net.sci.space, thus keeping them seperate... That's what the article said... Anyways, if we get confused with the naming think of all the poor net users who, looking through the group names, come across "net.space". They would say: 'Humm... a general space group, I sould join and talk about my new "hunky-dory-high-power-remote- controlled-telescope'". If you want to rename the group to net.shuttle, or net.sci.shuttle, that's fine with me because THAT reflects the contents of the news group. Gilles ...!alberta!myrias!ggc
slerner@sesame.UUCP (Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner) (09/03/85)
For whatever it's worth, there has been a high level of trafic
on net.columbia about being combined with net.space, and the
vote has been 100% against combining the two groups.
--
Opinions expressed are public domain, and do not belong to Lotus
Development Corp.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner
{genrad|ihnp4|ima}!wjh12!talcott!sesame!slerner
{cbosgd|harvard}!talcott!sesame!slerner
slerner%sesame@harvard.ARPA