phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (11/16/84)
This monthly list of groups is very nice but it is a pain to
check my active file against it. If it came out in a machine
oriented format I could hack a program to automatically combine
it with my local groups to update my active file.
Since I maintain 3 machines now, this would save a lot of my time.
(actually if this isn't available I will just ignore the lists)
another suggestion from a lazy admin...
--
The girls just want to chfn but the boys just want to fsck.
Phil Ngai (408) 749-5588
UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra,intelca}!amd!amdcad!phil
ARPA: amd!amdcad!phil@decwrl.ARPAken@turtlevax.UUCP (Ken Turkowski) (11/16/84)
To: amd!amdcad!phil Subject: Re: list of groups in mod.newslists In-reply-to: your article <255@amdcad.UUCP> > This monthly list of groups is very nice but it is a pain to > check my active file against it. If it came out in a machine > oriented format I could hack a program to automatically combine > it with my local groups to update my active file. That program exists and is already in place. In case you weren't aware, periodically a "checkgroups" control message comes in which the "newsgroups" file is updated and appended with "localgroups". This only applies to news 2.10.2, though. Now, if only the same thing could be done with the "moderators" file... -- Ken Turkowski @ CADLINC, Palo Alto, CA UUCP: {amd,decwrl,flairvax,nsc}!turtlevax!ken ARPA: turtlevax!ken@DECWRL.ARPA
spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (11/18/84)
> This monthly list of groups is very nice but it is a pain to > check my active file against it. If it came out in a machine > oriented format I could hack a program to automatically combine > it with my local groups to update my active file. Surprise! That feature is in news2.10.2 and will also be in 2.10.3!! It's known as the "checkgroups" control message, and up until a short while ago, I was posting those exact same control messages. I'm not posting those messages anymore, though. I got tired of getting 800+ messages from the news software at sites running old news. When I tried to politely suggest that people upgrade their news, I got attacked for suggesting that anyone spend the time to install better software. However, Phil, since you posed the question in the first place, I can come up with a solution for you. Since most of my news neighbors have expended the superhuman effort and months of time it takes to upgrade to 2.10.2, and since you're one of my neighbors, I can set it up so that "checkgroups" gets sent out to sites receiving the "to.gatech" group. Is that okay? As for everybody else, hey -- sorry about that. Maybe in a few months I'll try again if it appears that a majority of news sites are running up-to-date software. Until then, please don't anyone complain about me not posting the "checkgroups" message unless you're willing to have me put you down as the person to get all the automatically generated replies. (For the record: I don't get paid to maintain the lists or help maintain the Usenet. I don't get any particular jollies out of it either. I do it as a favor to people on the net. I don't have the time or patience to deal with the abuse from "busy programmers" who think that because people like Chuq and Mark and Rick and I are visible, that it means we're fair game for whatever shit they want to give us. As far as being busy goes, for starters, I'm helping administer 5 machines with two more on the way, I'm directing the students putting the Clouds OS together, and I'm doing my PhD thesis. I'm not a good person to complain to about being busy. Especially when it is coupled with abuse. I'm pretty hacked off about some of the garbage I've gotten in my mail recently. It's so easy for some people to complain, especially when they're not offering solutions. Vegans have feelings too, ya know.) (Also for the record: 2.10.2 seems to have far fewer bugs than any other news release in recent memory. There were a few minor ones, however, and a lot of suggestions for enhancements. Rick Adams (rick@seismo) also gets lots of (undeserved) abuse for the work he has been putting into improving the software. He's almost got 2.10.3 ready for beta test. If you have found a bug in news 2.10.1 or 2.10.2, don't bitch and moan on the net about "buggy software", or proclaim about how you won't upgrade your news until everybody else has been using it for 2 years to make sure it's stable. Instead, send your bug reports to Rick so he can include them in 2.10.3. Better yet, send Rick a bug report and a fix he can include. Far better to light a candle than post an article to net.flame complaining about the dark. So to speak.) I hope that answered your complaint, Phil. Even if it didn't, I feel better for saying a few things. We now resume your news, already in progress. -- Gene "8 months and counting" Spafford The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf%GATech.CSNet @ CSNet-Relay.ARPA uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!spaf
david@bragvax.UUCP (David DiGiacomo) (11/20/84)
In article <591@turtlevax.UUCP> ken@turtlevax.UUCP (Ken Turkowski) writes: >> This monthly list of groups is very nice but it is a pain to >> check my active file against it. If it came out in a machine >> oriented format I could hack a program to automatically combine >> it with my local groups to update my active file. > >That program exists and is already in place. In case you weren't >aware, periodically a "checkgroups" control message comes in which the >"newsgroups" file is updated and appended with "localgroups". This >only applies to news 2.10.2, though. No one is posting "checkgroups" messages; Gene Spafford gave up due to the volume of return junk mail/flames. Are you volunteering, Ken? Alternatively, could the text of the checkgroups message be posted to this group or mod.newslists so that 2.10.2 sites could apply it locally? -- David DiGiacomo, BRAG Systems Inc., San Mateo CA (415) 342-3963 (...decvax!ucbvax!hplabs!bragvax!david)
eric@milo.UUCP (Eric Bergan) (11/20/84)
I have been curious about "checkgroups" for some time, but have not investigated it closely. Does it accept the newsgroup lists in the format that they are being sent out in (i.e. some newsgroups indented, some having descriptions on more than one line)? I have a cobbled together version that works off a list I built based on the format in the 2.10.2 distribution, but it sure would be nice if I could just plop in the newsgroup list each time it comes out without massive amounts of editing. I can handle deleting a preable, but line by line editing of each newsgroup would be too much. Does anyone know if checkgroups will read that format? -- eric ...!seismo!umcp-cs!aplvax!milo!eric
joel@prcrs.UUCP (Joel C. McClung) (11/20/84)
I for one am very pleased with 2.10.2 software. It is not perfect,
(is anything in this world - especially in the software business?)
but can anyone say that they can beat the price? Rick and all the
others are to be commended for their efforts. I'm sure that a
tremendous amount of effort went into EVERY release. They
(Rick, et al) GAVE the software away to the world in order to try
and make the whole world compatible. Some of the whining and
complaining that I've read implies that Rick and company are some
sinister evil force out to destroy the world with their supposedly
buggy software.
Spaf, I'm glad that you do the things that you do for the net, and
I for one appreciate it. I don't think that I'm alone; its just
that the b****ers are very vocal.
Come on people, lets be mellow...
--
Joel C. McClung
(703) 556-2644
{seismo,allegra,ihnp4}!rlgvax!prcrs!joelspaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (11/26/84)
> No one is posting "checkgroups" messages; Gene Spafford gave up due to > the volume of return junk mail/flames. > > ... > > Alternatively, could the text of the checkgroups message be posted to > this group or mod.newslists so that 2.10.2 sites could apply it locally? > > -- > David DiGiacomo, BRAG Systems Inc., San Mateo CA (415) 342-3963 I haven't completely given up -- I'll start posting "checkgroups" messages again after 2.10.3 has been released and a majority of Usenet sites have switched over to it. In the meantime, I think your suggestion is a great idea, David. So, from now on, I will post a shar file which will allow site administrators to run a "checkgroups" message locally. I have posted a copy of that very same message to net.news.group for people to try and to comment on. Future versions will also be posted to that group, probably every two weeks. -- Gene "8 months and counting" Spafford The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf%GATech.CSNet @ CSNet-Relay.ARPA uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!spaf
chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Cheshire Chuqui) (11/27/84)
> (For the record: I don't get paid to maintain the lists or help > maintain the Usenet. I don't get any particular jollies out of it > either. I do it as a favor to people on the net. I don't have the > time or patience to deal with the abuse from "busy programmers" who > think that because people like Chuq and Mark and Rick and I are > visible, that it means we're fair game for whatever shit they want > to give us. > It's so easy for some people to complain, especially when they're > not offering solutions. Vegans have feelings too, ya know.) It makes sense to point out that NONE of us get paid to do any of this, and we ALL see, to get a fair amount of regular hate mail, whether or not we deserve it (and sometimes, being human, or quasi-human, we do). If you don't like what we are doing, tell us how to do it better and we'll listen. At least TRY to tell us how to do it better. Flaming may make YOU feel better, but please remember that there is someone at the other end of that flame that may end up feeling worse because of it. Flame often enough and you'll find that people stop listening to you completely, and then that one time you DO have an idea nobody will hear it (and you'll flame about that as well). Don't yell at us, help us. We aren't a clique, or a frat, or a council, or a group of power hungry dictators. We're a group of people who are trying to keep this thing running so that the other 99.9999999% of the users don't need to think about why Usenet exists and runs as smoothly as it does. Feel free to join the group-- we can always use more people willing to take on some of the load. All you need to do is let us know. If you think Usenet is screwed up with us running it, let me ask you a couple of questions. Please try to answer them (to yourself) honestly: If you were running Usenet instead of us, would it be better off? If so, why, and why aren't you doing it? If we weren't here, where would Usenet be? chuq -- From the center of a Plaid pentagram: Chuq Von Rospach {cbosgd,decwrl,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA ~But you know, monsieur, that as long as she wears the claw of the dragon upon her breast you can do nothing-- her soul belongs to me!~
david@bragvax.UUCP (David DiGiacomo) (11/28/84)
In article <1900@nsc.UUCP> chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Cheshire Chuqui) writes: >We aren't a clique... I have to disagree; members of the elite routinely make decisions affecting the entire net without consulting those outside the (plaid) inner circle. I don't think this is surprising or necessarily wrong. >We're a group of people who >are trying to keep this thing running so that the other 99.9999999% of the >users don't need to think ... This percentage is way off; too many of us spend far too much time on news/network maintenance. I doubt that even 75% can get by without thinking. >Feel free to join the group... I discovered this summer that it is not really possible to join the group, or at least the "Usenet Project". It seems that the only way to contribute is to compete (rather than cooperate) with the clique: publish your own news software and patches to the "official" software. Larry Wall and Bill Sebok seem to fit this category (of course they may disagree). >If you think Usenet is screwed up with us running it, let me ask you a >couple of questions. Please try to answer them (to yourself) honestly: > > If you were running Usenet instead of us, would it be better off? Maybe not, but it would be screwed up in a more interesting way. -- Welcome to Usenet -- now go home David DiGiacomo, BRAG Systems Inc., San Mateo CA (415) 342-3963 (...decvax!ucbvax!hplabs!bragvax!david)
hans@log-hb.UUCP (Hans Albertsson) (11/29/84)
[]
About upgrading to 2.10.2; I'd luv to, but sadly, I can't!
Why??? Because NO 2.10.2 ever got distributed around here....
Please, whatever powers there be, distribute!
In SMALL chunks, to get it safely across the Atlantic...
And when 2.10.3 comes around; same thing: GIMME!
--
Hans Albertsson, USENET/uucp: {decvax,philabs}!mcvax!enea!log-hb!hans
Real World: TeleLOGIC AB, Box 1001, S-14901 Nynashamn,SWEDEN