george@osc.COM (George Baggott) (09/01/90)
Having worked with Motif/UIL/Xt/Xlib for a while now, it has become apparent to me that while it is certainly powerful and flexible, GUI programming is much more complicated than it should be. Other environments that I've used, in particular the NextStep AppKit and the Andrew Toolkit, strike me as being much more elegent and effective. Having language support for object oriented programming makes things much cleaner and easier to use. Does anyone out there have any experience with some of the tools and/or class libraries available for X or X/Motif? I know of two C++ class libraries: The OI toolkit -- supports both Motif and Open Look styles from a single C++ class library. From what I can tell, it has a decent C++ interface, but no direct manipulation or user interface language. It is also relatively new, so its possible that it still has some rough edges in it. Open Dialog -- supports Motif via a C++ toolkit and a user interface language that appears to be slightly more powerful than UIL. From what I understand, this has been around for about 5 years and is in its second incarnation. It runs on a variety platforms and it also appears to be pretty elegent. I've also heard of several direct manipulation tools which generate UIL or C code. They all seem to be relatively new and I don't know much about them. If any one has any experiences or opinions regarding this area, I'd be interested in hearing about them. I'll post or mail a summary if people are interested... George
wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) (09/05/90)
In article <3745@osc.COM>, george@osc.COM (George Baggott) writes: > [ ... ] Does anyone out > there have any experience with some of the tools and/or class libraries > available for X or X/Motif? > > I know of two C++ class libraries: > The OI toolkit -- supports both Motif and Open Look styles [ ... ] > Open Dialog -- supports Motif via a C++ toolkit and a user interface language > that appears to be slightly more powerful than UIL. From what I understand, > this has been around for about 5 years and is in its second incarnation. [ ... > ... ] How can Open Dialog for Motif have "been around for about 5 years" when Motif has been around for much less than 5 years? If you are going to mention toolkits like this, please do not tantalize us ... mention the company, institution, or person who produces the toolkit! I just did a 'grep' of all messages to comp.windows.x for 1990 and I find no reference to Open Dialog other than yours. -- Bill Hutchison, DP Consultant rutgers!cbmvax!burdvax!ubbpc!wgh (work) Unisys UNIX Portation Center uunet!eidolon!wgh (home) P.O. Box 500, M.S. B121 "X does not just have bells and whistles -- Blue Bell, PA 19424 it has carillons and calliopes" - me, 1990
nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) (09/06/90)
In article <737@ubbpc.UUCP> wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) writes: >In article <3745@osc.COM>, george@osc.COM (George Baggott) writes: >> Open Dialog -- supports Motif via a C++ toolkit and a user interface language >> that appears to be slightly more powerful than UIL. From what I understand, >> this has been around for about 5 years and is in its second incarnation. [ ... >> ... ] > > How can Open Dialog for Motif have "been around for about 5 years" >when Motif has been around for much less than 5 years? > > If you are going to mention toolkits like this, please do not tantalize us ... >mention the company, institution, or person who produces the toolkit! > > I just did a 'grep' of all messages to comp.windows.x for 1990 and I find >no reference to Open Dialog other than yours. That's Apollo marketing for you. Open Dialog is a "User Interface Management System", a rather misused term these days. It is written in C++ and runs and is supported on a variety of machines (Apollo, HP, Sun and I think DEC). You can also license the source code I believe. It has a user interface language which supports both layout and "dialog", so you can actually write an active mockup of your application without writing any real code, and you can sometimes write trivial apps (like a calculator) without any real code, although you wouldn't want to. I believe you can use it from Fortran, C, Pascal and other languages, new objects have to be written in C++ however. Anyway, it has a set of classes which support the Motif look and feel. If you really wanted to you could even write a set of classes to use the real Motif widgets - I started to once, but then left the company. These classes obviously have only been around since Motif was created, but Open Dialog and it's predecessor Domain Dialog have been around for at least 5 years. I believe it was the first commercial UIMS, and one of the first anywhere. By now you've probably figured out that you can get it from HP/Apollo. -kee BTW. There's probably a 'ue' on the end of all of those 'Dialog's for trademark reasons. -- Alphalpha Software, Inc. | motif-request@alphalpha.com nazgul@alphalpha.com |----------------------------------- 617/646-7703 (voice/fax) | Proline BBS: 617/641-3722 I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
mhn@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Mark Notess) (09/07/90)
wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) writes: > In article <3745@osc.COM>, george@osc.COM (George Baggott) writes: > > [ ... ] Does anyone out > > there have any experience with some of the tools and/or class libraries > > available for X or X/Motif? > > > > Open Dialog -- supports Motif via a C++ toolkit and a user interface language > > that appears to be slightly more powerful than UIL. From what I understand, > > this has been around for about 5 years and is in its second incarnation. [ ... > > ... ] I would say Open Dialogue is _much_ more powerful than UIL because it provides rich mechanisms for specifying behavior. > How can Open Dialog for Motif have "been around for about 5 years" > when Motif has been around for much less than 5 years? Open Dialogue was originally called Domain/Dialogue or something like that and it ran (and runs) on Apollo's Domain systems. Then they "opened" it (a popular thing to do these days) so that it runs on Un*x. And the new release, which runs on Apollo and HP boxes (as well as some others I think) can simulate Motif although it isn't based on Xm. It is definitely object oriented. > If you are going to mention toolkits like this, please do not tantalize us ... > mention the company, institution, or person who produces the toolkit! HP. Mark ** Mark Notess * mhn%hpfcla@hplabs.HP.COM * (303) 229-6232 ** ** Hewlett-Packard * 3404 E. Harmony Road * Fort Collins, CO 80525 USA ** Disclaimer: I'm not an official spokesperson for Open Dialogue or anything else. The above comments represent my personal views on the matter.