jerry@oliveb.UUCP (Jerry Aguirre) (07/20/85)
The idea of requiring a user to verify each newsgroup of a multi-group
sounds good. With the default being no, at least the user is made aware
of the intent to limit cross postings.
I don't like the idea of forcing the user to type in the newsgroup
him/herself. The problem here is that there is to much chance of
introducing error thru bogus news groups. I am sure you have all seen
the 5 spellings of unix-wizards and both spellings of religion. You
only have to read the articles comming across the net to get a good idea
of the typing skills of the average poster.
Jerry Aguirre @ Olivetti ATC
{hplabs|fortune|idi|ihnp4|tolerant|allegra|tymix}!oliveb!jerrywombat@ccvaxa.UUCP (07/24/85)
Why is it so incredibly easy for J. Random Luser to create a newsgroup, anyway? Why aren't newgroup control messages restricted to user 'news' or something? "When you are about to die, a wombat is better than no company at all." Roger Zelazny, *Doorways in the Sand* Wombat ihnp4!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!wombat
ray@othervax.UUCP (Raymond D. Dunn) (07/25/85)
Assuming that the main problem with cross posting is disk space & xmission time/costs and not the fact that we have to wade through the same article over and over as we readnews, the solution is SIMPLE (in concept): Introduce one level of indirection in the way news files are held - the article is stored only in the first newsgroup posted to, and only a reference to it stored in the other categories - this should be linked through by readnews/rn etc. transparently to the user. These references need not even be xmitted, as they can be generated as news is received by a site. Thus cross-posting no longer has any net costs associated with it. Lets get into the code and do it! (By the way - who/what are these gods who feel able to declare that newsgroup x and y is now dead and that they are now going to moderate newsgroup z?? Not having had the pleasure (i.e. time) to peruse the net for some months, I missed the discussion/setting-up of moderated groups - if someone could mail me some background info on this I would appreciate it) Ray Dunn. ..philabs!micomvax!othervax (only an infrequent reader of the net so excuse if the whole point has been missed)
guy@sun.uucp (Guy Harris) (07/27/85)
> Introduce one level of indirection in the way news files are held - the > article is stored only in the first newsgroup posted to, and only a > reference to it stored in the other categories... > These references need not even be xmitted, as they can be generated > as news is received by a site. Thus cross-posting no longer has any > net costs associated with it. 2.10 (and, I think, 2.9) already *does* work that way (unless you're running under an OS like VMS that doesn't really like to have N directory entries pointing to one file header (it does permit it, but doesn't support reference counts)). If you post to net.lang.c and net.unix-wizards by listing both groups in the "Newsgroups:" header, the article text is stored in <news directory>/net/lang/c/<number> and <news directory>/net/unix-wizards/<another number>, which are two links to the same file. The article is transmitted once, and if the receiving site is running nice software it will store the article as two links to the same file and transmit it once. (I believe that, under Eunice/VMS, even though the article may have to be stored twice it will be transmitted only once.) If the receiving site is not running nice software, it should toss that software and replace it with something nice. (I think there may be old versions of B news and of "notes" which are not nice.) Guy Harris
itkin@luke.UUCP (Steven List) (07/28/85)
In article <431@othervax.UUCP> ray@othervax.UUCP (Raymond D. Dunn) writes: >Assuming that the main problem with cross posting is disk space & xmission >time/costs and not the fact that we have to wade through the same article >over and over as we readnews, the solution is SIMPLE (in concept): > >Introduce one level of indirection in the way news files are held Unless I'm mistaken, the news software (2.10.2 B) is even more efficient than this - it only maintains one copy of the article on disk. All others in other newsgroups are links to the first. So it would seem that the problem is not space. My problem with cross-postings (although somewhat alleviated by the Xref patch) is having to see them multiple times. I'm not concerned about disk space. I just hate rereading the same articles. The Xref patch to rn 4.3 (and the same facility in the readnews/vnews stuff) only works if you see both copies in the same invocation of the program. What would be useful is a way of knowing that you've already seen one link of the article. How about the .newsrc file? Larry - could this be done? Again, the problem is neither one of space nor time of transmission. Only one copy of the article is stored (is more than one sent?), so the problem is one of irritation rather than resource. -- *** * Steven List @ Benetics Corporation, Mt. View, CA * Just part of the stock at "Uncle Bene's Farm" * {cdp,greipa,idi,oliveb,sun,tolerant}!bene!luke!itkin ***
john@genrad.UUCP (John P. Nelson) (07/31/85)
>My problem with cross-postings (although somewhat alleviated by the Xref >patch) is having to see them multiple times. I'm not concerned about >disk space. I just hate rereading the same articles. The Xref patch to >rn 4.3 (and the same facility in the readnews/vnews stuff) only works if >you see both copies in the same invocation of the program. Sorry, Steven, but this is JUST NOT TRUE!!!!!!! The Xref patch really updates the .newsrc and is UNRELATED to the session in which the news is read! The vnews algorithm is different, but still unrelated to the session in which one is viewing the news! (The article is only shown in first newsgroup which it was posted to that you subscribe to.) In fact, only the readnews algorithm has the "session" problem, and for all I know, it may have been fixed by now. The algorithm was to keep all the inode numbers of the articles that had been read that session, and match against them before the start of each article. Needless to say, I don't use "readnews" anymore.
lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall) (07/31/85)
In article <289@luke.UUCP> itkin@luke.UUCP (Steven List) writes: > ...The Xref patch to >rn 4.3 (and the same facility in the readnews/vnews stuff) only works if >you see both copies in the same invocation of the program. What would >be useful is a way of knowing that you've already seen one link of the >article. How about the .newsrc file? Larry - could this be done? Er, uh, what can I say? That's an excellent idea. I think I'll do it about 2 years ago. One moment while I visit my DeLorean... ZAP! Okay, go check out your .newsrc now. It should now remember Xref'ed articles from session to session. Anything else you'd like? Larry "How'd he do that?" Wall {allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!lwall
phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (08/03/85)
In article <2211@sdcrdcf.UUCP> lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall) writes: >Okay, go check out your .newsrc now. It should now remember Xref'ed articles >from session to session. Anything else you'd like? > >Larry "How'd he do that?" Wall >{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!lwall Since you asked, if I 'M' an article which has been posted to two or more groups which I read, I get asked if I want to read it in each successive group which the article was posted in. I would prefer 'M' not to show it to me any more in that session. This effect might be achieved by making rn show an article only in the first group the article is posted in. -- My sister told me "I filled up my shoe tree so I knew it was time to stop buying shoes. Then our parents gave me some shoes so I had to buy another shoe tree. And then..." Phil Ngai (408) 749-5720 UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.ARPA
itkin@luke.UUCP (Steven List) (08/03/85)
In article <2211@sdcrdcf.UUCP> lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall) writes: >In article <289@luke.UUCP> itkin@luke.UUCP (Steven List) writes: [something dumb and uneducated...AAAAARGH] > >Er, uh, what can I say? That's an excellent idea. I think I'll do it >about 2 years ago. One moment while I visit my DeLorean... > >Larry "How'd he do that?" Wall Since both Larry and John (john@genrad) took the trouble to answer me and point out my foolishness publicly, I thought I'd thank them for continuing my education publicly. Thanks, guys. I'll try to make my foolish questions a little less obvious in the future, OK? Wait - did I just see this twice? -- *** * Steven List @ Benetics Corporation, Mt. View, CA * Just part of the stock at "Uncle Bene's Farm" * {cdp,greipa,idi,oliveb,sun,tolerant}!bene!luke!itkin ***