mark@zok.UUCP (Mark W. Snitily) (11/29/90)
I've just installed epoch 3.2 and am very pleased with the results. (For
those of you who haven't heard of epoch, it's GNU emacs 18.55 with a *good*
X11 interface.)
I seem to recall a discussion on the net about a GNU emacs 19.0. That was
some time ago. It was suppose to be emacs 18.x but with a good X11 interface.
Having played with epoch now, it seems to have achieved exactly the same goal.
Also, seeing Richard Stallman's name in epoch's "ChangeLog" file makes me
wonder.
Is epoch 3.2 really a beta (or alpha) of the long awaited emacs 19.0?
Or, is epoch a totally separate entity that should be added to the
"yet another" editor list?
-- Mark
Mark W. Snitily Consulting Services:
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...!{mips,sgi}!zok!mark, mark%zok@mips.com, mark%zok@sgi.comde5@ornl.gov (Dave Sill) (11/29/90)
In article <502@zok.UUCP>, mark@zok.UUCP (Mark W. Snitily) writes: > >Is epoch 3.2 really a beta (or alpha) of the long awaited emacs 19.0? >Or, is epoch a totally separate entity that should be added to the >"yet another" editor list? Epoch is totally independent of the v19.0 effort, with the exception that Epoch's successes and failures are being monitored by the v19 folks. One big diference between the two is that Epoch works only under X, whereas v19 will also support text-based terminals. -- Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov) Martin Marietta Energy Systems Workstation Support
pierson@encore.com (Dan L. Pierson) (11/30/90)
In article <502@zok.UUCP> mark@zok.UUCP (Mark W. Snitily) writes:
Is epoch 3.2 really a beta (or alpha) of the long awaited emacs 19.0?
Or, is epoch a totally separate entity that should be added to the
"yet another" editor list?
Sort of both. It's a separate modification of Gnu Emacs by Simon
Kaplan's group at the University of Illinois but the V19 authors have
suggested that people use it as a sort of "conceptual beta-test" of
many of the V19 features.
Not all Epoch features can be supported in an editor that still wants
to work in non-X11 environments; the Epoch authors have said that they
plan to eventually port Epoch to V19, using as many stock V19 features
as possible.
--
dan
In real life: Dan Pierson, Encore Computer Corporation, Research
UUCP: {talcott,linus,necis,decvax}!encore!pierson
Internet: pierson@encore.comhans@acsu.buffalo.edu (Hans Chalupsky) (11/30/90)
In article <502@zok.UUCP> mark@zok.UUCP (Mark W. Snitily) writes: >I've just installed epoch 3.2 and am very pleased with the results. (For >those of you who haven't heard of epoch, it's GNU emacs 18.55 with a *good* >X11 interface.) Same here (very pleased, that is). >I seem to recall a discussion on the net about a GNU emacs 19.0. That was >some time ago. It was suppose to be emacs 18.x but with a good X11 interface. >Having played with epoch now, it seems to have achieved exactly the same goal. >Also, seeing Richard Stallman's name in epoch's "ChangeLog" file makes me >wonder. > >Is epoch 3.2 really a beta (or alpha) of the long awaited emacs 19.0? >Or, is epoch a totally separate entity that should be added to the >"yet another" editor list? > >-- Mark I wonder about that too. Especially, will it be worth putting a lot of effort into Epoch right now that will have to be put again into Emacs19 when it comes out (e.g., writing e-lisp code to make proper use of all the new features Epoch provides)? Can some `authority' shed light on the policies behind the development, possible coexistence or merging of Epoch-3.2 and Emacs19? Hans hans@cs.buffalo.edu Hans Chalupsky, Dept. of CS, 226 Bell Hall, SUNY@Buffalo, NY 14260.
darrylo@hpnmdla.HP.COM (Darryl Okahata) (11/30/90)
In comp.windows.x, pierson@encore.com (Dan L. Pierson) writes: > Not all Epoch features can be supported in an editor that still wants > to work in non-X11 environments; the Epoch authors have said that they > plan to eventually port Epoch to V19, using as many stock V19 features > as possible. The fact that Epoch works only within X-windows is the one reason why I'm not using it. If Epoch worked on terminals also (I sometimes call in via a modem and do some work), I'd drop-kick Emacs, as I'm very tired of growing old waiting for V19. I sometimes wish that the FSF had never mentioned that they're working on V19 -- it's probably gotten them more bad press, etc., than anything else. I also suspect that it's nearing the time when it will qualify for the "Vaporware: Longest Time-to-Ship" Award. Does anyone know what software product was announced and took the longest time to ship (I don't)? -- Darryl Okahata UUCP: {hplabs!, hpcea!, hpfcla!} hpnmd!darrylo Internet: darrylo%hpnmd@hp-sde.sde.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the little green men that have been following him all day.
brucec@phoebus.labs.tek.com (Bruce Cohen;;50-662;LP=A;) (11/30/90)
In article <502@zok.UUCP> mark@zok.UUCP (Mark W. Snitily) writes: > > I've just installed epoch 3.2 and am very pleased with the results. (For > those of you who haven't heard of epoch, it's GNU emacs 18.55 with a *good* > X11 interface.) ... > > Is epoch 3.2 really a beta (or alpha) of the long awaited emacs 19.0? I hope not. Epoch has a lot of useful and interesting features, but it isn't very compatible with previously written emacs packages. This is because of the model of "screens" as orthogonal to emacs buffers and windows. Try for instance, to run gdb-mode or gnus in epoch. I would much prefer a version of emacs which somehow integrates the window and screen model. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Speaker-to-managers, aka Bruce Cohen, Computer Research Lab email: brucec@tekchips.labs.tek.com Tektronix Laboratories, Tektronix, Inc. phone: (503)627-5241 M/S 50-662, P.O. Box 500, Beaverton, OR 97077
carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) (12/01/90)
Here are the real answers to the Epoch questions. You can get on the mailing
list by sending mail to epoch-request@cs.uiuc.edu.
+ Who wrote Epoch?
Epoch is part of the research of Simon Kaplan at the U of Ill. I have
done almost all the implementation so far ("I am the Epoch Development
Team" :-)), although a new student, Chris Love, is doing most of the
work for the 3.3 release (which will be out this millenium, promise!).
+ What is the relationship between Epoch, GNU-Emacs 18 and 19?
Epoch is a modified version of GNU Emacs 18.55. Basically it supports
multiple X windows and various X-window specific features. Epoch is
completely unrelated to V19, although the group working on V19 tells us
that they are watching Epoch in order to decide the utility/cost of
various features. We hope to port Epoch to a V19 base when that becomes
available. Whether writing Epoch specific code is worth while depends on
1) when V19 comes out and 2) how many Epoch features it will have. I
can't tell you anything about either of them.
Epoch should run almost all V18 code just fine. Problems arise because
of extended features of Epoch, such as focus tracking. Use of this
feature can cause buffers to change underneath running Elisp packages,
when they don't expect it to.
+ Where can I get Epoch?
Epoch is distributed under the GNU Public License, and can be obtained
via anonymous FTP to cs.uiuc.edu, in ~ftp/pub/epoch-files/epoch. Copies
of the manual in TeXInfo, DVI, and PostScript form are also there.
(cs.uiuc.edu = 128.174.252.1)
+ Why was Epoch written?
We wrote Epoch because we needed certain abilities in an X-window based
editor that were (and still are not) available anywhere else. Epoch is
really a "side effect" of our actual research. What this means,
unfortunately, is the work on Epoch is driven by our other research needs,
not a desire to develop a better editor. Our entire group does use Epoch
as our primary editor, so some non-research related features have snuck
in :-)
+ Why doesn't Epoch run on tty's?
Because I screwed up early on. I'm sorry. All I can say is that when I started
work on Epoch, I'd didn't know anything about X, Lisp, or Emacs, but I'm much
better now :-)
Also, at the time we expected V19 to arrive within a few months, and so we saw
no need to go to the lengths necessary to provide tty capabilities. It was a
mistake, and we no longer have the spare resources to fix it.
P.S. In all seriousness, if there are any corporate sponsors who'd like to
see Epoch "fixed up", we'd be estatic to accept grants for the purpose of
beefing up Epoch. Direct inquiries to kaplan@cs.uiuc.edu.
Or, if there is anyone in Pittsburgh who'd like to hire a reasonably skilled
PhD'd research programmer to work on Epoch to provide advanced HyperText/
X-window UI capabilities, I know one who should graduate in May :-)
--
Alan M. Carroll "It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy,
Epoch Development Team I'll get a saw."
CS Grad / U of Ill @ Urbana ...{ucbvax,pur-ee,convex}!cs.uiuc.edu!carrollvladimir@prosper.EBB.Eng.Sun.COM (Vladimir G. Ivanovic) (12/01/90)
In article <990010@hpnmdla.HP.COM> darrylo@hpnmdla.HP.COM (Darryl Okahata) writes:
The fact that Epoch works only within X-windows is the one reason
why I'm not using it.
I'm curious, because I use Epoch at work almost exclusively and I use Emacs at
home from a dumb terminal, what is it about the Epoch/Emacs differences which
makes it so difficult for you switch between the two?
-- Vladimir
--
==============================================================================
Vladimir G. Ivanovic Sun Microsystems, Inc
(415) 336-2315 2550 Garcia Ave., MTV12-33
vladimir@Sun.COM Mountain View, CA 94043-1100
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. Your mileage will vary.
==============================================================================Sean.Levy@CS.CMU.EDU (12/06/90)
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 30-Nov-90 Re: Epoch 3.2 and Emacs > 19.0 Cohen;;50-662;LP=A;@phoe (993) > I hope not. Epoch has a lot of useful and interesting features, but it > isn't very compatible with previously written emacs packages. This is > because of the model of "screens" as orthogonal to emacs buffers and > windows. Try for instance, to run gdb-mode or gnus in epoch. I run gdb mode all the time under epoch. What's your problem? All the other goodies I and others have written seem to work just fine (comint mode and its derivatives, etc.). Could you elaborate on what kinds of problems you have? I intend on writing much elisp, which, I expect, will work without change under vanilla gnu emacs and epoch, modulo nifty epochy things I add (in a modular way, of course). { Sean } Mail: Sean Levy | EDRC | CMU | 5000 Forbes Ave | Pittsburgh, PA 15213 Campus: Hamburg Hall 2212, Ext. 2257 (+1 412 268 2257) EMail: snl+@cs.cmu.edu | ...!harvard!cs.cmu.edu!snl