grogers@uiucdcsm.cs.uiuc.edu (05/26/88)
/* Written 7:42 am May 23, 1988 by lewisd@homxc.UUCP in uiucdcsm:comp.windows.x */ The specs haven't quite been finished yet. The final document will be finished and available to vendors at the end of July. The documentation for the toolkits, both Xt and NDE, will be available 3Q88. An application style guide will also be available 3Q88. /* End of text from uiucdcsm:comp.windows.x */ Although OPEN LOOK is not defined yet, it is the standard. I like that.
stpeters@dawn.steinmetz (Dick St.Peters) (06/02/88)
In article <26900035@uiucdcsm> grogers@uiucdcsm.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >Although OPEN LOOK is not defined yet, it is the standard. I like that. Reminds me of when X11 was declared the standard before it was defined. -- Dick St.Peters GE Corporate R&D, Schenectady, NY stpeters@ge-crd.arpa uunet!steinmetz!stpeters
jg@jumbo.dec.com (Jim Gettys) (06/03/88)
In article <11065@steinmetz.ge.com> dawn!stpeters@steinmetz.UUCP (Dick St.Peters) writes: >In article <26900035@uiucdcsm> grogers@uiucdcsm.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >> >>Although OPEN LOOK is not defined yet, it is the standard. I like that. > >Reminds me of when X11 was declared the standard before it was defined. >-- Not true; X11 specs went out (for public comment) in August 1986; the annoucement at the X conference was the following January (1987). They were available electronically for anyone to look at, and availability was annouced widely. There was lots of things that went into the design as a result of the feedback. So people who cared had a chance to take a real good look ahead of time, and had real input along the way before the design was firmed up that fall. Even so, some things experience only taught us during field test (dealing with the keyboard properly, for example). But the design was well defined by that January, and had been open for public comment. The announcement that January certainly surprised many of us involved (not to mention caused us to lose lots of sleep; it is bad enough when your company has bet on you; even worse when many other companies do as well, before you've really finished). And the announcement was made by a large fraction of the industry at the same time. - Jim Gettys
ruthlk@attunix.att.COM (04/14/89)
I've gotten lots of requests for more information about how to
order the OPEN LOOK (tm) software.
The software consists of:
* The OPEN LOOK XT+ Toolkit
* OPEN LOOK Window Manager
* OPEN LOOK Workspace Manager
* OPEN LOOK File Manager
* OPEN LOOK Terminal Emulator (based on xterm)
Following is additional information on ordering and licensing.
Ruth Klein
AT&T Bell Labs
-----------
OPEN LOOKtm SOURCE AVAILABLE NOW!
Source for AT&T's OPEN LOOK End User System and X Toolkit is orderable and
shipping now.
The OPEN LOOK source license is $1000. The binary royalty and
runtime fees are:
Binary Royalty,
Units shipped Per Copy Runtime Fee
1- 5,000 $36. $8.
5,001-10,000 29. 7.
10,001-20,000 19. 6.
20,001-50,000 17. 5.
50,001+ 16. 4.
(The binary royalty applies to OEM source licensees who port OPEN LOOK
to their platforms and then furnish binaries derived from that port to their
customers for general use. The runtime fee applies instead of the binary
royalty to independent software vendors who ship OPEN LOOK code for use
with a single application.)
As a special introductory offer, application developers who introduce an OPEN
LOOK trademarked product by February 1990 will have all runtime payments
waived until July 1990.
The OPEN LOOK license is a site license which allows unlimited copies for
systems connected via LAN up to a mile. You do not have to be a UNIX licensee
to license OPEN LOOK. The porting base is the AT&T Intel 80386-based 6386
WorkGroup System.
Available separately (or packaged with OPEN LOOK at a different package
price) is a source license for XWIN, AT&T's robust version of the MIT X Window
Systemtm. Redistribution licenses for OPEN LOOK and XWIN are available, too.
Call 1-800-828-UNIX to get more details or to order the source products.
BINARY
A binary version of OPEN LOOK for the AT&T 6386 WGS workstation or compatible
386-based systems such as the COMPAQ 386 will be generally available on June
5 and orderable from your A&T representative (external) or via DOSS
(internal AT&T). The binary version will include the OPEN LOOK End User System,
OPEN LOOK X Toolkit and XWIN.
60-DAY EVALUATION PROGRAM
Effective immediately, AT&T is offering a special OPEN LOOK binary 60-day
evaluation program to qualified external value added resellers and independent
software vendors. To participate, you must just execute a two-page agreement
and submit a conditional purchase order for the production version of
the OPEN LOOK End User System and X Toolkit ($995 list). There is no charge if
you return the evaluation materials within 30 days after the end of the
evaluation period. Otherwise AT&T will also ship you the regular production
version and will invoice for it. Call Bill Stanger at 201-898-6076 (or via
e-mail attunix!attmail!ntower!bstanger) for the details.
OPEN LOOK is a trademark of AT&T
X Window System is a trademark of MITjdm@gssc.UUCP (John D. Miller) (05/17/89)
I am interested in comparing notes with people writing to or using the
OPEN LOOK GUI, either from AT&T or Sun. Any word (official or not) whether
AT&T has decided to include the OL X Toolkit in the Application Binary
Interface spec for SVR4.0?
As a OL Beta Program participant, I must comment that I am somewhat impressed
with the quality of the beta product, even from as far back as January. As
I type this, I am using the OL window manager, workspace manager, and file
manager (Mac-like file browser) built from January source code and it works
quite well. I had a little trouble compiling it on 386/ix (so I could use it
with our UNIX and DOS X servers), since they had mucked with the Imakefile
rules and templates, but that wasn't too bad for code that, I'm told, wasn't
supposed to be ready for release.
The Open Look Technical Specification (Revision 17) is excellent. This thing
is two-inches thick and gives detail down to the engineering specifications
of the scrollbars, pushpins, etc. You can really tell which documents came
from Sun and which ones from AT&T. The Sun docs are really alright -
informative, complete, pictorial, humorous - obviously "California casual."
The AT&T doc is not nearly as "hip" and the material was not as well-understood
by the author(s), but it is usable.
I have played briefly with the OL software on Suns, but that was last
August. I'll be in a better position to compare later this summer, when I
get a 3/80. No suprise that Sun is several steps ahead of AT&T on implementing
the OL Technical Spec and providing a wide variety of OL apps, but the AT&T
stuff is quite usable, particularly from a developer's standpoint.
I really don't want to get into any GUI religious battle, but I would like
to point out a myth that seems to be prevalent in this industry: that apps
written to PM, MS-Win, and MOTIF are all cross-portable, since they kinda-
sorta-maybe look similar from the user's end. This is NOT the case. Ask
anyone who has written to any two of those three. Apps don't port well from
even MS-Win and PM, and those came from the same company. This is not a slam
that MS et al didn't make compatability an issue - the point is that people
shouldn't believe that if they write their apps to PM, MS-Win, or MOTIF that
they will not have to do any work to get it to the another platform.
standard disclaimers apply.
--jdm
...!{tektronix!verdix}!sequent!gssc!jdm John David Miller
(503) 641-2200 Graphic Software Systems
* This space intentionally * 9590 S.W. Gemini Dr.
* left blank. * Beaverton, OR 97005nazgul@apollo.COM (Kee Hinckley) (05/19/89)
In article <8905172112.AA13166@decwrl.dec.com> jdm@gssc.UUCP (John D. Miller) writes: >that MS et al didn't make compatability an issue - the point is that people >shouldn't believe that if they write their apps to PM, MS-Win, or MOTIF that >they will not have to do any work to get it to the another platform. I was not aware of anyone making this claim. In fact it has been repeatedly asserted that MW/PM -> Motif was a non-goal. The point of Motif was to make the systems *user* portable. -kee -- ### User Environment, Apollo Computer Inc. ### Public Access ProLine BBS ### ### {mit-eddie,yale}!apollo!nazgul ### nazgul@pro-angmar.cts.com ### ### nazgul@apollo.com ### (617) 641-3722 300/1200/2400 ### I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
logan@vsedev.VSE.COM (James Logan III) (06/11/89)
Can anyone tell me whether or not Sun uses Open look on any of their products? I read something about them having a deal with AT&T at one point, and I'd like to know if Open Look will eventually replace SunView or News. Anybody know? -Jim -- Jim Logan logan@vsedev.vse.com VSE Software Development Lab uucp: ..!uunet!vsedev!logan (703) 329-4654 inet: logan%vsedev.vse.com@uunet.uu.net
leach@tolerant.UUCP (Geoffrey Leach) (06/11/89)
From article <1524@vsedev.VSE.COM>, by logan@vsedev.VSE.COM (James Logan III): > Can anyone tell me whether or not Sun uses Open look on any of their > products? ... and I'd like to know if Open Look will eventually replace > SunView or News. At the Catalyst conference last October Sun stated that it was their intent to migrate everything to Open Look. At that time they had a strategy to migrate SunView applications to the Open Look toolkit. All of this was to run with NeWS, of course. At that time, Sun had no strategy for X-based development. The merged NeWs/X server was intended for the use of X clients on other platforms. Caveat. I haven't been developing on Suns for six months, so the info I have may well be out of date.
don@BRILLIG.UMD.EDU (Don Hopkins) (06/11/89)
Date: 10 Jun 89 18:18:07 GMT From: vsedev!logan@uunet.uu.net (James Logan III) Can anyone tell me whether or not Sun uses Open look on any of their products? I read something about them having a deal with AT&T at one point, and I'd like to know if Open Look will eventually replace SunView or News. Anybody know? -Jim -- Jim Logan logan@vsedev.vse.com VSE Software Development Lab uucp: ..!uunet!vsedev!logan (703) 329-4654 inet: logan%vsedev.vse.com@uunet.uu.net Yes, Sun is supporting OPEN LOOK, and they are using it in their products. OPEN LOOK is a user interface specification, not a window system, so it could not "replace" NeWS. The SunView window system is being replaced by Open Windows, (aka X11/NeWS). Old SunView1 programs will still run on top of X11/NeWS, though. At least two *implementations* of OPEN LOOK run on top of X11/NeWS: XView, which has a SunView compatible interface (from the programmer's point of view, not the user's), and runs on top of X11; and tNt (the NeWS toolkit), which is written in object oriented PostScript, and runs in NeWS, on top of the NDE toolkit kit. Open Windows includes both XView and tNt, and it will be part of the standard System V.4 distribution from AT&T (and Sun). To top it off, AT&T's X-Toolkit based OPEN LOOK implementation runs on top of X11 (therefor X11/NeWS). There are several different implementations of OPEN LOOK, and you can choose which one to use depending on your needs. You are not forced to use NeWS, or XView, or the X toolkit, in order to have an OPEN LOOK user interface. If you want to write your own implementation of OPEN LOOK on top of your favorite toolkit or window system, you can, and you won't even get sued! That's the whole point of OPEN LOOK, as opposed to, say, the look and feel of the Apple Macintosh. -Don
pja@ralph.lafayette.la.us (Pete Alleman) (01/30/91)
Does anyone know of an Open Look development package available for 386ix? I've found several Motif packages, but no Open Look. -- Pete Alleman pja@ralph.lafayette.la.us