curtiss@truffula.umiacs.umd.edu (Phil J. Curtiss) (01/23/91)
I am engaged in a project where we will need to visualize a lot of data produced from some computational models of medical processes. I am not a graphics person so I am not sure how to specify what we will need exactly but, suffice it to say, that we are going to need a hi-res color workstation or a peripheral for a workstation (Sun Sparc, Dec DS5000) that is very fast at generating graphics. The workstation must also support X windows since the software for the modeling must be written in X (11r4). I suspect there are a few of you out there that are doing similar projects so I would appreciate any names of products and the companies that you think might be what we are looking for. Thanks in advance. -- Domain: curtiss@umiacs.umd.edu Phillip Curtiss UUCP: uunet!mimsy!curtiss UMIACS - Univ. of Maryland Phone: +1-301-405-6744 College Park, Md 20742
scheng@cs.utexas.edu (Sheila Cheng) (01/23/91)
If you are looking for fast graphics performance then you can't beat teh Silicon Graphics GTX and VGX series graphics engines. I always operate in their native mode so I dont know about the X side of things. As far as I know, the VGX engine is the fastest commercially available turn-key rendering system around.
okeefe@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Paul O'Keefe) (02/04/91)
In article <CURTISS.91Jan22140927@truffula.umiacs.umd.edu>, curtiss@truffula.umiacs.umd.edu (Phil J. Curtiss) writes: > I am engaged in a project where we will need to visualize a lot of data > produced from some computational models of medical processes. I am not a > graphics person so I am not sure how to specify what we will need exactly > but, suffice it to say, that we are going to need a hi-res color workstation > or a peripheral for a workstation (Sun Sparc, Dec DS5000) that is very fast at > generating graphics. The workstation must also support X windows since the > software for the modeling must be written in X (11r4). > In article <649@rodan.cs.utexas.edu>, scheng@cs.utexas.edu (Sheila Cheng) writes: > If you are looking for fast graphics performance then you can't > beat teh Silicon Graphics GTX and VGX series graphics engines. I > always operate in their native mode so I dont know about the X > side of things. As far as I know, the VGX engine is the fastest > commercially available turn-key rendering system around. I agree that SGI makes the best graphics workstation bar none, however, as with driving a Mercedes Benz, you PAY for the privilege. So, I guess the decision comes down to what you need and what you can afford. If one needs to interactively manipulate a volume rendering of a 256x256x256 data set, then don't hesitate to plunk down $250k on a high end Silicon Graphics VGX machine. Of course, you'll have to program it in SGI native graphics environment GL and DGL (distributed graphics library) in order to make use of that expensive graphics engine. And ofcourse, SGI will charge extra for alot of the system software that they consider optional, like NFS and X11. Also, SGI's standard university discount is 35% and unless Maryland is a major SGI customer you're not going to get them to go any lower. However, in reading Phil Curtiss's article, I get the impression that this is not what he's after. First, he mentions that their going to program in X11. X11 is a waste on an SGI (it's like using your $50K Mercedes Benz to deliver pizzas). Also, he mentions the SPARCstation and DEC DS5000 which are a good match for X11 software. Both Sun and Dec offer 24-bit true color options and 3D graphics acceleraters which can be used with X11. Finally, since Maryland already has lots of Sun and Dec equipment, he'll likely be able to get a 50% discount and a free service contract. A setup like a SPARCstation 390, a 19 inch Sony monitor, and Sun's high end grpahics option will cost half that an SGI 240 VGX. I don't claim that it will be able do 3D interactive graphics like a SGI 240 VGX (not even close), but you can display true color images and renderings and some 3D interactive graphics (not real fast). The bottom line: the SPARCSStation and DECstation are general pupose techinal workstations. Silicon Graphics makes 3D true color workstaions with special hardware for fast rendering and interactive 3D graphics. They solve different problems and carry different prices. -Paul O'Keefe okeefe@cs.buffalo.edu
karlton@fudge.wpd.sgi.com (Phil Karlton) (02/05/91)
In article <1991Feb3.161604@cs.Buffalo.EDU>, okeefe@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Paul O'Keefe) writes: |> |> I agree that SGI makes the best graphics workstation bar none, |> however, as with driving a Mercedes Benz, you PAY for the privilege. |> So, I guess the decision comes down to what you need and what you can |> afford. |> |> If one needs to interactively manipulate a volume rendering of a |> 256x256x256 data set, then don't hesitate to plunk down |> $250k on a high end Silicon Graphics VGX machine. |> Of course, you'll have to program it in SGI native graphics |> environment GL and DGL (distributed graphics library) in order |> to make use of that expensive graphics engine. |> And ofcourse, SGI will charge extra for alot of the system software |> that they consider optional, like NFS and X11. |> Also, SGI's standard university discount is 35% and unless |> Maryland is a major SGI customer you're not going to get them |> to go any lower. I don't want to make a product announcement, but I do feel compelled to correct a a misleading impression. It is true that you can spend $250K on a a single SGI workstation. To do that you would probably end up getting a 380 processor (8 33Mhz MIPS R3000 => 243 mips) for ~$145K plus a $60K VGX graphics board (1.1M Triangles or 180K Polygons a second) and fill it up with some memory and disk. (A GTX graphics board is only $30K @ 150K Triangles and 100K Polygons a second). On the strength of the 3xx series machines, _Dataquest_ lists SGI as a super computer manufacturer. SGI also makes machines with more modest performance goals and a correspondingly modest price. For instance a 4D/20 (10 MIPS, 14.5K Triangles a second) can be had diskless for $11,500; a 4D/35TG (33 MIPS, 57K Triangles a second) would be ~$31K. The 4D/25 is somewhere in between for $s and mips. The above prices are for single unit, non-discounted, orders. When IRIX 4.0 is released, then X11 and Motif runtime environments will be bundled with the release. |> The bottom line: the SPARCSStation and DECstation are general |> pupose techinal workstations. Silicon Graphics makes 3D true color |> workstaions with special hardware for fast rendering and interactive The bottom line is that SGI makes a broad range of general purpose technical workstations. PK
erik@westworld.esd.sgi.com (Erik Fortune) (02/06/91)
(Apologies if you see this twice -- I'm getting strange messages from news about my last attempt to post) In article <1991Feb3.161604@cs.Buffalo.EDU>, okeefe@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Paul O'Keefe) writes: >The bottom line: the SPARCSStation and DECstation are general >pupose techinal workstations. Silicon Graphics makes 3D true color >workstaions with special hardware for fast rendering and interactive >3D graphics. They solve different problems and carry different prices. First off, the prices you quote are stale (at least). I don't think we even sell 240's any more. <Shameless plug> Suggesting that someone buy Sun over SGI because a SPARCStation costs less than a 380VGX is sort of like suggesting that they buy a Sun instead of a DECstation because a VAX 9000 (mainframe sized vax) is a lot more expensive than a SPARCStation. SGI offers a wide range of machines, from the $5,900 16 mip data station (no graphics) to the $204,000 380 VGX (8 33mhz R3000's, 234 mips, 1 million triangles/second). Between the low end and the high end are a wide variety of processor and graphics options. SGI makes general purpose technical workstations, high-performance 3D graphics workstations and supercomputers. Please don't dismiss SGI as too expensive without at least looking at our machines; I think you'll be surprised by the breadth, performance, and (lower than expected, oftern lower than competitors) price of SGI systems. -- Erik Disclaimer: I am an SGI employee, but I'm speaking for myself. I don't praise SGI machines because I'm an SGI employee -- I came to work here because I think SGI builds great systems.
tomt@maui.coral.COM (Tom Tulinsky) (02/07/91)
I don't work for SGI but I can confirm that the statements of Phil
Karlton and Erik Fortune are basically correct--in fact I think they
are the kind of low-key, factual information that we need more of on
the net. SGI does make a wide range of workstations and I they are
competitive in price.
Probably the biggest reason to go with SGI is 3rd party software
availibility. A lot of people got burned buying Stellars and Ardents
a year or two ago because, though they had great performance, there
wasn't much software available for them. My former company, a
molecular modeling software company, gave up on supporting a variety
of platforms even at the cost of buying SGI machines for (at least
one) customer. If you want to buy 3rd party software, ask the
software vendor what platform they recommend. (Don't beleive the
hardware company's claims about software; many ports have been
announced but not completed.)
Coral
* ** Tom Tulinsky 508 460-6010
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