benn@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Thomas a Coxus) (11/07/85)
[]
Dear Fellow Netters:
This is a summary of people's responses about USENET costs.
The question I first opened was the co$t of sending
and maintaining the net. Other questions that were
addressed by letters are being summarized by category,
so these are only pieces.
The summaries I am compiling will be: Gut Reactions to the Co$t
of Usenet [this one], The Future of the Anarchic Net as a Social
Form, The Correct Form for Net Group Rules and Enforcement Thereof.
Other summaries may come about. Stay tuned. Allow 6-8 weeks for
delivery. Void where prohibited. Eat your vegetables.
Stop slouching. And Reply Directly if you want in on this -- I
just summarize, I don't censor!
In my original 'Set Something Straight' I berated non-backboners
for wasting others' money and complaining about the net admin
when in fact these complainers were getting everything for free.
Responses are below:
Your points are well taken . . . [list of suggested solutions]
...ihlp!gpw
re. spoiled usenet posters: WELL SAID!!!
--Rich ihnp4!hound!ganns
A well reasoned and well expressed argument. Good job.
- Bob Simpson
UUCP ..!{ihnp4,cbosgd,seismo}!plus5!bob
Bravo! Your posting was well thought out and hits the nail on the head.
[. . . other material summarized elsewhere . . .]
Best regards,
-Tom Kloos, Tektronix, Wilsonville, Oregon
uucp: ..{ucbvax,decvax,uw-beaver,hplabs,ihnp4,allegra}!tektronix!orca!tomk
Good article!
Phil Ngai +1 408 749-5720
UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil
Mr. Cox -
It is not normally my habit to congratulate people on
well-conceived and well-written letters to the network, but your
letter, referred to in the subject line above, was exceptional.
[. . . analysis is summarized elsewhere . . .]
S. McGeady
...!tektronix!ogcvax!inteloa!mcg
Hear, hear. Those bums should put up or shut up. He who pays the piper
and all that ...
-John Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario [. . . no other name offered]
I agree 100%. I hope that I am part of the vast majority.
--George Sipe
I thought I'd just drop you a note to say I agree 100% with your open
letter, and to commend you for posting it.
Cheers,
--chris . . . watmath!mnetor!andor!chris
Good stuff. Keep it up. Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
Yeah.
--Brian M. Godfrey . . . tektronix!ogcvax!sequent!brian
Mr. Cox
[. . . initial political analysis summarized elsewhere . . .]
Yes, the volume on Usenet news is oppressive, and eating up more resources
and money than it deserves. But I find it hard to believe that these brilliant
people who built up the net and all the news software, which has obviously been
a big success and brought a lot of popularity to UNIX, cannot cope with the
increased volume in any more objective and non-antagonizing way than deleting
newsgroups which they believe are unnecessary.
"If you have a better solution, let's hear it." Yes, I know. In fact I
am working on a solution which will allow volume to be cut down as much as the
SA's want, but in a relatively objective way. It's very ugly (it involves
cutting out chunks of articles and cancelling some article altogether), but it
should do all right until the more delicate filters get installed. If you're
interested, I'll send it off to you (and Spaf?) when some people here at [site]
(including [the SA]) have a crack at it to see if it has any major problems.
I am both a Reader and a Writer of the net. My site is a leaf node
but it receives news directly from ubc-vision, which is a "backbone" site,
according to the latest map.
--Jamie.
...!ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!andrews
I applaud the sentiments expressed in your article. In the early days of
the network, it was the generousity of DEC and the University of
California at Berkeley that made the network what it is today. A
considerable sum has been spent by DEC in support of this network; if
you're curious, ask decvax!usenet about it.
In the last two years, it has been AT&T at various locations,
Hewlett-Packard, and the Center for Seismology Studies in Arlington, VA
that have contributed greatly to the maintainance and expansion of the
network (seismo feeds both Europe and Australia. hplabs feeds Korea.
Ponder the cost of that for a moment).
If some of my efforts here at UCB are successful, we can expect the
ARPA Internet to take up most of the backbone activities next year, to
the benefit of the network, because the Internet has vastly more
bandwidth than any of the channels currently being used for netnews
distribution. The Internet will be able to move more data at greatly
increased speed. Then again, I might fail.
[ additional material in other summaries ]
keeper of the network news for ucbvax,
and guardian of the gateway,
Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair fair@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu
[Dear Mr. Cox]
[. . . full text omitted in this summary . . .]
Second, the amount of traffic is so high, and the signal/noise ratio so
low, that people are not going to be able to afford the time to read news.
I know I can't really afford the one hour per day it takes to read a subset
of the newsgroups that I consider interesting or useful (or would, if they
contained less drivel).
The solutions people are proposing to limit traffic
or make it easier to sift through the mountains of information (e.g. more
moderated newsgroups or keyword-based news reading programs) are too
little, too late for Usenet. Fixing news is like "fixing" war; they're
both sociological problems.
So my opinion is that the net is going to collapse. I doubt that its next
incarnation will be as accessible to the masses, because size is its major
problem.
I am a news reader, not involved in network administration or maintenance.
Len Popp
lmpopp@watdaisy
From: seismo!munnari!basser.oz!john
[. . . extensive material about rules summarized in
another posting, currently in press . . .]
. . . Anyway, all this "We have a right to flame" shit
isn't anarchy; I won't even dignify it with an analogy with terrorism.
It's just childish crap. Blow it away.
Ceiling on postings? *WHAT* ceiling on postings? The only ceiling I've
seen is a ceiling on *new groups*, NOT postings. And I like it!
net.bizarre? Fuck off! Why should *anyone* spend their money
moving that shit around? (Not flaming at you, rather at the
dodgy writers I've seen so many of lately.)
Think of the
assholes you met at the last party you went to. Think of the
drivel they spouted. Would you want to have them trying to force
you to pay money to transmit it?
I'm a systems programmer here at Basser. I also look
after netnews. I administer news on our systems and look after the
feeds.
I read a lot of news (too much!)
and post only very, very occasionally; I don't often feel that I have
something to say to, or ask of, that large an audience.
John Mackin, Basser Department of Computer Science,
University of Sydney, Sydney, Australia