ptran@hydra.unm.edu (Michael Burg) (02/17/91)
Have anyone ever work on Intergraph workstation? I'm currently working as research eng. at Sandia Nat. Labs and Sandia recently bought 8 millions bucks Intergraph workstations.... Currently, I'm having a lot of problems with the softwares applications. Intergraph has Design Eng. (schematic capture), Hybrid Eng. (Hybrid Design...) I have to use these on IC chip design. They don't really support X window since they do have their own screen manager which is not a distributed environment. However, they use the X windows for one of the thermal analysis program from Pacific Numeric Co. I have few questions: 1. If any of you ever uses Intergraph workstation, how is it performance in terms of hardware and engineer softwares. 2. Why don't they use X for their windows interface? 3. They do have xwindow on their CD disk, but the X window libraries used for programmer must be paid to get when others like Sun, DEC, HP comes with it. 4. How about support service? So far, I gets very poor responses from Intergraph. I don't like their own screen manager window interface, but I have to use the Intergraph workstation since it has circuit schem. capture and hybrid eng. design. Any of you out there knows other vendors like Sun, DEC who supports X window interface and other engineer products running under X window. The products I'm looking at are schematic capture, Hybrid design, and 3D thermal analysis program. So far, I know the thermal program is from Pacific Num. Co. however, it has a lot of bugs which I considered as poorly coded program, buggy and I still cannot live with it. Sorry for the long message, and I wish to see any suggestions.
swindon.ingr.com (Nik Simpson x4333) (02/21/91)
In article <1991Feb17.114258.27965@ariel.unm.edu> ptran@hydra.unm.edu (Michael Burg) writes: > >1. If any of you ever uses Intergraph workstation, how is it performance in terms of hardware and engineer softwares. Yes I use them all the time :-), Since I don't use other workstations and I work for the company you might think my remarks are not entirely objective. Part of my jobs is supporting third party developers on Intergraph platforms, they are generally very happy with X performance and like the machine as a development platform. >2. Why don't they use X for their windows interface? The vast majority of Intergraph software is built on the Microstation CAD package, this does not support X, the reason is that Intergraph have been building workstations since before X was a twinkle in MIT's eye. Accordingly along with other workstation manufacturers Intergraph developed its own technology (Environ V), migrating such a large a software base to X windows is not a trivial task. >3. They do have xwindow on their CD disk, but the X window libraries used for programmer must be paid to get when others like Sun, DEC, HP comes with it. This is not strictly true, what you pay for is a compiler licence, the Xwindow programming libraries are bundled with the compiler. You wouldn't find the libraries much use without a compiler. The main reason for not bundling the compiler is that most customers have no need for it and consequently don't wish to pay for it in the base cost of the system. Considering the size of the SANDIA labs order I would be very surprised if you don't have a compiler licence, ask your sys admin. >4. How about support service? So far, I gets very poor responses from >Intergraph. I'm surprised to here this, we are generally percieved in the industry as having a very high quality support organisation, we are connected to USENET worldwide so if you have questions not appropriate to simple customer support then this is quite a good forum. Perhaps if you indicated the nature of the questions to which you get a poor response maybe people could help. > >I don't like their own screen manager window interface, but I have to use the >Intergraph workstation since it has circuit schem. capture and hybrid eng. >design. Any of you out there knows other vendors like Sun, DEC who supports >X window interface and other engineer products running under X window. The >products I'm looking at are schematic capture, Hybrid design, and 3D thermal >analysis program. So far, I know the thermal program is from Pacific Num. >Co. however, it has a lot of bugs which I considered as poorly coded program, >buggy and I still cannot live with it. There is no requirement for you to use the Intergraph screen manager, you can run the X windows screen manager on top of Environ V as I do and still be able to use your non X packages. Try looking in /usr/lib/X11/xdm for info running X and Environ V side by side. If you still can't work it out drop me a line by email. > >Sorry for the long message, and I wish to see any suggestions. -- |--------------------------------------------------| | Nik Simpson UUCP :uunet!ingr!swindon!st_nik!nik| | Systems Consultant (UNIX). Intergraph UK Ltd. | |--------------------------------------------------|
tim@b23b.ingr.com (Tim Anderson) (02/22/91)
In article <1991Feb17.114258.27965@ariel.unm.edu>, ptran@hydra.unm.edu (Michael Burg) writes: >1. If any of you ever uses Intergraph workstation, how is it performance > in terms of hardware and engineer softwares. Yes, that's almost all I work with. My comments may seem a little slanted toward Intergraph, but all my experience with portation and systems support has been very much in favor of Intergraph's systems. >2. Why don't they use X for their windows interface? Intergraph has been in the CAD/CAE business for over 20 years and developed its windowing system way before X windows was defined by MIT. Note here that Intergraph is no different than other workstation vendors, because each has their own window system that they developed (that includes SUN,SGI,DEC,IBM, HP,Apollo, etc.). Intergraph is not fully based on X because it is very much a developer of application software not just a workstation vendor. It is a much easier task to build a piece of hardware, put an OS on top of it, plug X in as a graphics "option", and then let the VARs and OEMs and SW Vendors deal with porting their applications to the new device *than* it is to develop a new piece of hardware (that has to support the hundreds/thousands of existing applications that you are selling and developing with previously developed graphical systems. It has only been in recent months that X has gotten to the level of performance that would make any attempt to convert worthwhile and it's only a good performer if you server has proprietary extensions that let it do hardware assisted graphics (eg., 3D, double buffering, etc.) >3. They do have xwindow on their CD disk, but the X window libraries used > for programmer must be paid to get when others like Sun, DEC, HP comes with >it. If you buy a compiler the libraries, etc. should come along at no extra charge - you need to check with your system administrator to get a load key. >4. How about support service? So far, I gets very poor responses from >Intergraph. Intergraph has been rated along with all other computer system vendors by various magazines/polls and for the past 10 years have been rated number one in customer service satification. What specifically are you having problems with?? >I don't like their own screen manager window interface, but I have to use the >Intergraph workstation since it has circuit schem. capture and hybrid eng. >design. Any of you out there knows other vendors like Sun, DEC who supports >X window interface and other engineer products running under X window. The >products I'm looking at are schematic capture, Hybrid design, and 3D thermal >analysis program. So far, I know the thermal program is from Pacific Num. >Co. however, it has a lot of bugs which I considered as poorly coded program, >buggy and I still cannot live with it. Intergraph was not the only CAE vendor that participated in the benchmark conducted at Sandia. I am pretty sure that the systems you are asking about were aware of the of the benchmark and either decided not to participate because they had nothing to offer to meet the requirements, failed to pass the benchmark, or were beyond the budget of the contract. Part of Intergraph's solution is the ability to intergrate diverse applications into a cohert system and I believe that was one key issue where the others fell short. Of course, these comments are solely my own and not those of my employer. -- ______________________________________________________________________ / / / / Tim Anderson ( uunet!ingr!b23b!tim!tim ) / Shift to the left, / / Systems Product Marketing / Shift to the right, / / Intergraph Corporation / Push 'em, Pop 'em, / / Huntsville, Alabama 35807-4201 / Byte, byte, byte !!! / / Mailstop: LR23B4 Phone: (205) 730-8503 / / /_____________________________________________/_______________________/