harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) (05/14/91)
Again after fooling with the resource files for mwm I am at the point where I do not fear telling upper management to shove mwm...And over such a minor detail at that... First a thought: I have used many window managers and mwm is the only one that has puts me off so badly... I wonder if the author(s) of mwm use a different window manager and only run mwm for testing??? Enough garbage, or nobody will answer my question... I want to make icons line up at the bottom left of my screen. Simple. I want to no gaps when I iconify a window. Apparently impossible. I got them to line up. I de-iconify them and iconify a window who's icon was to the right. It appears just where it used to be and doesn't tippy toe on down to the left like I want it to. (Somehow I get the feeling that the same scum who design HPUX design mwm...) Is it possible to get mwm to have left gravity when iconifying? Al
tay@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Mike Taylor) (05/16/91)
> Again after fooling with the resource files for mwm I am at the point >where I do not fear telling upper management to shove mwm...And over such >a minor detail at that... > > First a thought: I have used many window managers and mwm is the only > one that has puts me off so badly... I wonder if the author(s) of > mwm use a different window manager and only run mwm for testing??? > Enough garbage, or nobody will answer my question... In fact, the only HP workstations we have are for testing. We all have Suns and use olwm because has the best price/performance workstation in the industry. Yeah, right. > I want to make icons line up at the bottom left of my screen. Simple. >I want to no gaps when I iconify a window. Apparently impossible. I got >them to line up. I de-iconify them and iconify a window who's icon was >to the right. It appears just where it used to be and doesn't tippy toe >on down to the left like I want it to. Apparently impossible. There is a resource called iconPlacementMargin which controls the margin width of the screen, but I don't think it does what you need. I guess none of the OSF consortium members thought this was as significant of a feature as you do. I personally think that vuewm is the superior window manager. > (Somehow I get the feeling that >the same scum who design HPUX design mwm...) OK, Mr. Tact, is name calling really necessary? > > Is it possible to get mwm to have left gravity when iconifying? Yes. > >Al >---------- Peace, Mike Taylor Current Products Engineering & Online Interface Technology Operation ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Surface: Hewlett-Packard Internet: tay@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com 1000 NE Circle Boulevard UUCP: {hpfcla}!hpcvlx!tay Corvallis, Oregon 97330 Fax: (503) 750-4980 "I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal!" - Zaphod Beeblebrox
jr@einstein.dkw.com (J.R. Jesson) (05/16/91)
In article <HARKCOM.91May14194032@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) writes: > > Again after fooling with the resource files for mwm I am at the point >where I do not fear telling upper management to shove mwm...And over such >a minor detail at that... > I want to make icons line up at the bottom left of my screen. Simple. >I want to no gaps when I iconify a window. Apparently impossible. I got >them to line up. I de-iconify them and iconify a window who's icon was >to the right. It appears just where it used to be and doesn't tippy toe >on down to the left like I want it to. (Somehow I get the feeling that >the same scum who design HPUX design mwm...) > > Is it possible to get mwm to have left gravity when iconifying? > The answer is yes-and-no. First, (and I'm sure you've figured out this one) you can specify gravity with the mwm resource specification: => Mwm*iconPlacement : bottom right For example, if you want the icons to start lining up in the bottom right corner, and move upward. (RTFM) Mwm seems to do a pretty good job getting this right, but will not automatically pack icons (which I think is what you want) when various apps are started/killed. You can, however, tie a button or a menu item to the function f.pack_icons. However, none of this will work if the application chooses to position the icon for you, either in code or in the resource file specification (xrn is one example). now, *FLAME ON* Dammit, it pisses me off to hear one refer to honest developers as "scum". We all have a job to do, and in most cases, we try to do it well. HPUX and Motif are two examples of ambitious projects with tight timelines, and shifting priorities. I agree that mwm leaves alot to be desired in terms of performance and code size. I believe mwm attempts to do too much. But dont call the programmers who designed it and wrote it "scum". I'd like to see you do what they've done in the same period of time. So Give 'em a break. *FLAME OFF* J.R. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DKW Systems Corporation 4050 INFOMART 1950 Stemmons Freeway,
arb@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Andrew Brooks) (05/16/91)
How do you achieve the same effect as: DragWindows in OpenWindows and OpaqueMove in twm in mwm ? Andrew.
tay@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Mike Taylor) (05/20/91)
> How do you achieve the same effect as: > > DragWindows in OpenWindows and > OpaqueMove in twm > > in mwm ? Vuewm supports this with Vuewm*moveOpaque: true. If mwm supports it, I am pretty sure the resource would also be "moveOpaque". Opaque moves are fabulous on the HP s700. > Andrew. > ---------- Pax, Mike Taylor Current Products Engineering & Online Interface Technology Operation ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal!" - Zaphod Beeblebrox
harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) (05/21/91)
In article <100920318@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com> tay@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Mike Taylor) writes: =}OK, Mr. Tact, is name calling really necessary? Certainly made me feel better. ;-) (Would "Mr. Tact" be name calling?) BTW: I got email from one of the developers who has a sense of humor. Gave me a lot more patience to deal with 'mwm' and HPUX. When a customer is upset about what he feels is shoddy workmanship and whines about it, it takes a great deal to swallow that and offer some comfort... Any fool can flame... =}Yes. I meant 'upon each iconification'. mwm can't do this... Al
harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) (05/21/91)
In article <1991May16.143406.6111@dkwgate.uucp> jr@einstein.dkw.com (J.R. Jesson) writes: =}(RTFM) I did. You misunderstood the question. I was asking if it was possible make mwm use left gravity when iconifying 'on each instance' instead of remembering the last postition... (UTFQ) =} Mwm seems to do a pretty good job getting =}this right, but will not automatically pack icons That is what I want, but what mwm can't do. =}You can, however, tie a =}button or a menu item to the function f.pack_icons. And pull down a menu or press a button almost every time you iconify a window... =}*FLAME ON* =} [defense of those who need no defense deleted] =}*FLAME OFF* Since when does one consider the 'hard-work' put in by the designers when considering customer satisfaction. They get paid to produce a product that will please the CUSTOMER, not themselves. My company paid it's money and has gotten very little satisfaction out of using mwm (other than the pretty frames) but has had plenty of hassles do mwm's failings. It is a commercial product yet it is frequently being compared disfavorably to pds products. With the attitude that 'designer' is king, one merely sets oneself (and possibly the market) up for a big fall... Al
jr@einstein.dkw.com (J.R. Jesson) (05/22/91)
In article <HARKCOM.91May21142325@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) writes: >In article <1991May16.143406.6111@dkwgate.uucp> jr@einstein.dkw.com > (J.R. Jesson) writes: > > Since when does one consider the 'hard-work' put in by the designers >when considering customer satisfaction. They get paid to produce a product >that will please the CUSTOMER, not themselves. ... Sorry, the way you put it didn't sound like humor. I wasn't saying that the customer should necessarily excuse the responsible organization because its programmers put in hard work. I WAS saying that if a company produces a bad product, its usually not (*just*) the programmers fault. If mwm, as an example, is a pig, part of that fault goes to management, part goes to the system architects, and part goes to the programmer. This doesnt make anybody "scum" (which I read as incompetence or dishonesty). >...My company paid it's money >and has gotten very little satisfaction out of using mwm (other than the >pretty frames) but has had plenty of hassles do mwm's failings. It is a >commercial product yet it is frequently being compared disfavorably to >pds products. ... Sigh, I cant believe I'm acting as an apologist for @!#$ Motif, but here goes... Your company either (1) paid alot of money to take part in a development effort - to join monetarily with a consortium of organizations, or (2) paid the handling costs for distributing source. Either way, your company accepted the liability of working with essentially beta software. You are plain screwed if you think you bought a mature product. No doubt, Motif has a distance to go towards stability (The headers on my mwm source say it's beta!), But, at least for the class of products on which we are now working on it does provide a good model for Computer-Human interaction, has good (getting better) internationalization, is supported on a variety of platforms, and has good promise for future growth and enhancement. If these factors are not important to you, you should look elsewhere for a windowing environment. >...With the attitude that 'designer' is king, one merely sets >oneself (and possibly the market) up for a big fall... Right. A good point. I never ment to imply that the designer was king of this product. However in balance to this statement, I offer J.R.'s corollary #192: "too may cooks spoil the software." >Al J.R. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DKW Systems Corporation 4050 INFOMART 1950 Stemmons Freeway,
dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) (05/23/91)
jr@einstein.dkw.com (J.R. Jesson) writes: |> No doubt, Motif has a distance to go towards |> stability (The headers on my mwm source say it's beta!), Sheesh, it *is* old. The fact that your source says "beta" doesn't prove anything about current stability; I think the last time any such bits left this building was close to a year ago. There have been three proper releases since then. -- David Brooks dbrooks@osf.org Systems Engineering, OSF uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) (05/23/91)
I wrote: |> jr@einstein.dkw.com (J.R. Jesson) writes: |> |> No doubt, Motif has a distance to go towards |> |> stability (The headers on my mwm source say it's beta!), |> |> Sheesh, it *is* old. The fact that your source says "beta" doesn't prove |> anything about current stability; I think the last time any such bits left |> this building was close to a year ago. Thanks to Chris Craig for reminding me that the README with the 1.1 release was accidentally an old file, and said "beta" three times. It should have been deleted. Apparently this has confused some people. -- David Brooks dbrooks@osf.org Systems Engineering, OSF uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
gaf@uucs1.UUCP (gaf) (05/24/91)
Alton Harkcom writes: > > I want to make icons line up at the bottom left of my screen. Simple. >I want to no gaps when I iconify a window. Apparently impossible. I got >them to line up. I de-iconify them and iconify a window who's icon was >to the right. It appears just where it used to be and doesn't tippy toe >on down to the left like I want it to. This might be a desirable option for a future release, but it should be an OPTION, not a requirement. As for me, I don't want icons moving on me. I like them to stay put so I can find them again easily. I find it's much faster to pick something by position than by the icon picture or text. -- Guy Finney It's that feeling of deja-vu UUCS inc. Phoenix, Az all over again. ncar!noao!asuvax!hrc!uucs1!gaf sun!sunburn!gtx!uucs1!gaf
harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) (05/25/91)
In article <1991May22.155819.13389@dkwgate.uucp> jr@einstein.dkw.com (J.R. Jesson) writes: =}Your company either (1) paid alot of money to take part =}in a development effort - to join monetarily with a consortium of =}organizations, or (2) paid the handling costs for distributing source. 1) No and 2) No My company purchased mwm as a finished product (binary)... =}Either way, your company accepted the liability of working with =}essentially beta software. It is not a beta. It is a 'finished' product that doesn't quite seem finished... ;-) =}(The headers on my mwm source say it's beta!) I wish I had the source, then I could customize the user interface to my taste. I could also squash the bugs instead of finding work-arounds. But unfortunately the OSF isn't open... =}has good (getting better) internationalization I work in a Japanese environment. Though I will admit to the 'getting better' part, the 'good' part is far from being true... =}and has good promise for future growth and enhancement As do the other wm's... =}If these factors are not important to you, =}you should look elsewhere for a windowing environment. These factors are important to me. The most important though, is the ability to customize the user interface. Since these are the areas where most of the problems I have with mwm are, I would think that your advice about looking elsewhere is sound, except that it is not my decision... =}I offer J.R.'s corollary #192: "too may cooks spoil the software." But if you haven't got a chef, you have to have a lot of cooks... Al
neideck@kaputt.enet.dec.com (Burkhard Neidecker-Lutz) (05/27/91)
>> How do you achieve the same effect as: >> >> DragWindows in OpenWindows and >> OpaqueMove in twm >> >> in mwm ? > If you have sources, compile mwm with -DOPAQUE and the resource Mwm*moveOpaque: True will do what you want. Unfortunately most binary distributions of mwm that I've seen aren't compiled with this option enabled (or the SHAPE support). I'm not aware which companies ship it that way, Digital currently doesn't :-(. Does anybody know which companies ship their mwm with this turned on ? Burkhard Neidecker-Lutz, CEC Karlsruhe