rfg@hound.UUCP (R.GRANTGES) (06/03/86)
It seems to be a common human failing that we like to complain about the other guys failings while ignoring our own. For example, here I am lecturing to the great and powerful who run net.news while I am a next to know nothing about the whole shebang. Be that as it may, let me observe that it seems a mite peculiar to me that you folks are out their about to "fix" the users misuse of the net by organizing the so-called "soapbox groups" out of existence, while the net itself appears to continue to deteriorate technically. Why is it, for example, that the so-called line eater bug still seems to exist? Why is it that multiple transmissions of articles are occurring with increasing frequency? Why is it that articles reflecting back to their point of origin seem to be occurring more and more frequently? Surely these latter two faults, at least, are contributing to the traffic problem. I originate very few articles. Yet, when I do, I see them come back to me over and over again. I suggest that this is a case where it is easier and more fun to remove the dust particle from your brothers eye while ignoring the beam in your own. -- "It's the thought, if any, that counts!" Dick Grantges hound!rfg
fair@styx.UUCP (Erik E. Fair) (06/03/86)
I don't know about you, Mr. Grantges, but I fix the problems that are within my powers to fix. I can do nothing about the increasing tide of mediocrity in the so-called `technical' groups except exhort those responsible to employ their gray matter with more frequency. (and perhaps retire to intelligently moderated newsgroups). I can do nothing about the legions of pinheaded system administrators who have neither the time to educate their users, nor the time to run current software, but do have the time to flame at other people for suggesting that they update their ancient software or educate that particularly annoying user at their site. I can and will assist the backbone in any way that I deem reasonable to lower their costs and system loads, and increase the reliability and speed of the network through the nodes where I either administrate or have influence. For the record, on the systems where I can do something, the establishment of a list of talk.* groups will be nothing more than a rename; the users that I serve clearly think the listed groups are worth reading, and therefore I will continue to pass those groups around under whatever names the network community decides. Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair fair@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu styx!fair fair@lll-tis-b.arpa
ecl@mtgzy.UUCP (e.c.leeper) (06/04/86)
> let me observe that it seems a mite peculiar to me that you folks > are out their about to "fix" the users misuse of the net by organizing > the so-called "soapbox groups" out of existence, while the net > itself appears to continue to deteriorate technically. Why is it, > for example, that the so-called line eater bug still seems to exist? > Why is it that multiple transmissions of articles are occurring with > increasing frequency? Why is it that articles reflecting back to their > point of origin seem to be occurring more and more frequently? Read "F for Frankenstein" by Arthur C. Clarke or "A Subway Named Moebius" by A. J. Deutsch for the *real* answer! :-) Evelyn C. Leeper ...ihnp4!mtgzy!ecl (or ihnp4!mtgzz!ecl) Bureaucracy is a giant mechanism operated by pygmies. --Honore de Balzac
tanner@ki4pv.UUCP (Tanner Andrews) (06/05/86)
) styx!fair writes:
) I can do nothing about the legions of pinheaded system administrators
) who have nether ... nor the time to run current software ...
OK, wise guy. That tears it. I'm as tired of the ancient software as
you are. Tell me: What decade will 2.10.3 come out. Seems like it's
been "beta" for a fairly long time.
When it comes out, (if we live so long), tell me the name of the
nearest site which can supply me with a copy of the thing.
tanner andrews, systems
compudata south, deland
--
<std dsclm, copies upon request> Tanner Andrewsspaf@gatech.CSNET (Gene Spafford) (06/19/86)
In article <6910@ki4pv.UUCP> tanner@ki4pv.UUCP (Tanner Andrews) writes: >) styx!fair writes: >) I can do nothing about the legions of pinheaded system administrators >) who have nether ... nor the time to run current software ... > >OK, wise guy. That tears it. I'm as tired of the ancient software as >you are. Tell me: What decade will 2.10.3 come out. Seems like it's >been "beta" for a fairly long time. > >When it comes out, (if we live so long), tell me the name of the >nearest site which can supply me with a copy of the thing. > As was announced at Usenix last week, news 2.11 will be released 1 August 1986. It will be published to mod.sources, and it will be available for uucp and ftp from most of the major backbone sites at that time. 2.10.3 will never be officially released -- we're going directly to 2.11. Rick Adams has been pretty constantly adding enhancements and fixes to the software for the past year and a half. I don't believe that it has ever stabilized to the point where Rick was happy to release it to public use. "Ancient" is sites STILL running 2.10, 2.10.1, and even 2.9 and A-news. 2.10.2 has been out for about 2 years. What is the excuse of sites that haven't upgraded? -- Gene Spafford Software Engineering Research Center (SERC), Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf@Gatech.GATECH.EDU uucp: ...!{akgua,decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!spaf
phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (06/20/86)
In article <3911@gatech.CSNET> spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) writes: >"Ancient" is sites STILL running 2.10, 2.10.1, and even 2.9 and A-news. >2.10.2 has been out for about 2 years. What is the excuse of sites >that haven't upgraded? 2.10.2 was pretty buggy and hard to install. All the (many) versions of 2.10.3, however, went in with almost no work. I think Rick has been doing a good job, although I know many people have been impatient for 2.10.3. -- They really know how to make air conditioners in Atlanta. Unfortunately their thermostats aren't nearly as good. Phil Ngai +1 408 749 5720 UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.dec.com
gds@sri-spam.ARPA (The lost Bostonian) (06/20/86)
In article <3911@gatech.CSNET>, spaf@gatech.CSNET (Gene Spafford) writes: > "Ancient" is sites STILL running 2.10, 2.10.1, and even 2.9 and A-news. > 2.10.2 has been out for about 2 years. What is the excuse of sites > that haven't upgraded? Not every site is at liberty to change their software when a new release is out. There can be factors involved to prevent this. For example, where I used to work, we had to keep the same software on all the machines we administrated for ease of administration. That meant that all the software had to work on all the machines before it could be installed. Also there was the issue of support -- because we wanted to get out of the business of supporting news, we were trying to run the exptools version of news (if you don't understand this, this is a version of news that lots of sites in AT&T run). Well, we made it as far as 22 out of 25 machines that we could successfully install it on, but the remaining three did not have enough disk space, and the machine owners refused to reconfigure their disks. So, no exptools (it was 2.10.2 back then, current at the time we tried to switch over). I'm sure others have stories to tell about how they could not install the new news for administrative reasons. Before you start to insult us consider our special situations. --gregbo
phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (06/21/86)
In article <5946@sri-spam.ARPA> gds@sri-spam.ARPA (The lost Bostonian) writes: >version of news that lots of sites in AT&T run). Well, we made it as >far as 22 out of 25 machines that we could successfully install it on, >but the remaining three did not have enough disk space, and the machine >owners refused to reconfigure their disks. So, no exptools (it was >2.10.2 back then, current at the time we tried to switch over). This sounds like a good reason for introducing an incompatible version of news every year. -- They really know how to make air conditioners in Atlanta. Unfortunately their thermostats aren't nearly as good. Phil Ngai +1 408 749 5720 UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.dec.com