gnu@l5.uucp (John Gilmore) (10/22/85)
In net.internat, mikeb@inset.UUCP (Mike Banahan) wrote (seriously edited by me): > I overstepped the rules and regulations involved in setting up newsgroups. > Gene Spafford ( ..seismo!gatech!spaf) has pointed out my misdoings > and requests that the newsgroup should be renamed or removed. > (he suggests one of:) > 1) Form a moderated group. > 2) restrict to eunet.internat (or a similar group). > 3) Do the work by mailing list. > Accordingly, we should consider this group closed. > and I will find someone to set up a eunet.internat > If somebody believes that there is a real need for a newsgroup like this, they > are welcome to take up the cudgels with net.news.group. > For the time being, us Europeans will talk to each other. I don't see a lot of point in excluding the world "net" distribution from one of the few Usenet topics that actually involves people around the globe. Since most Unix systems are designed and built outside Europe, restricting the newsgroup to Europe seems silly (not to mention insulting to Asians who have the same or worse problems.) Net.internat seems to have readers and writers and a topic that seriously needs research, investigation, discussion, and coordination. If somehow somebody forgot to tap-dance when the music came on, so what? In this self-organized anarchistic network have we gotten so bureaucratic that because a rule didn't get followed, we'd wipe out a productive technical newsgroup? (You can tell I've just finished reading Ursula LeGuin's "The Disposessed" again...) I know there are people at Sun following this newsgroup, working toward making better products for the world market. I'm sure this is true at most or all of the other Unix manufactories. And people, like me, rewriting public domain Unix certainly could do a better job this time if we could see what problems the current software faces in non-English markets. I don't quite remember when "the net" decided that new groups should all be mod groups or mailing lists or local groups. None of those has quite the same effect as a "real" newsgroup, and I think a real newsgroup is appropriate for this topic. If you agree, send mail to Gene Spafford (..!mcvax!seismo!gatech!spaf) and Mike Banahan (mcvax!ukc!inset!mikeb) and tell them what you think. Just send mail -- don't post "me too" articles to the net -- unless you have something more than that to say. PS: I'm looking for an "eunet" news feed from some local San Francisco site. Our feed (ptsfa) doesn't seem to carry those groups...
jpd@kepler.UUCP (John Donovan) (10/24/85)
In article <212@l5.uucp>, gnu@l5.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: > > Net.internat seems to have readers and writers and a topic that > seriously needs research, investigation, discussion, and coordination. > If somehow somebody forgot to tap-dance when the music came on, so > what? In this self-organized anarchistic network have we gotten so > bureaucratic that because a rule didn't get followed, we'd wipe out a > productive technical newsgroup? (You can tell I've just finished > reading Ursula LeGuin's "The Disposessed" again...) Your information is seriously out of date if you think this is still a "self-organized anarchistic network." That is a nice self-image if you are so inclined, but it doesn't square with the facts. The recent heavy handed treatment of net.internat by one of the Troika is a case in point. The larger problem is, How do you--in a supposedly leaderless environ- ment--deal with people who take it upon themselves to "save the net" from the people on it (and with whom it is synonymous)? this is all in the best interests of the net, of course (and maybe it is)--but how do you deal with this paternalistic arrogation of responsibility that involves no concurrent accountability? The only answer that I see is to take the idea of decentralized responsibility more seriously--and let people vote on new groups, like they are supposed to do. NOT watch such efforts ad net.internat get bounced by some self-appointed guardian of the common good. Touchy? You bet. I've paid my dues around here playing into just a stacked deck. If enough people object to the way new groups are handled, they should object, and something will change; and conversely. I, for one, intend to exercise my God-given right to bitch. Thank you, the soap box is now vacant... > > PS: I'm looking for an "eunet" news feed from some local San Francisco > site. Our feed (ptsfa) doesn't seem to carry those groups... Talk to Matt McClure at The WELL in Sausalito (415) 332-6106. -- ---- ... John Donovan, MicroPro Technical Communications {dual,ptsfa,hplabs}!well!micropro!kepler!jpd