keho@wmt.UUCP (Kees Houttuin) (10/29/87)
Maybe i'm asking something well known in minix- or Amiga-world but anyway: does anyone know of a minix-port to the Amiga? If so, is the compiler also ported or is it just the minix-os. Kees Houttuin keho@wmt.uucp Westmount Technology
cmcmanis@pepper.UUCP (10/30/87)
In article <295@wmt.UUCP> keho@wmt.UUCP (Kees Houttuin) writes: >Maybe i'm asking something well known in minix- or Amiga-world but >anyway: does anyone know of a minix-port to the Amiga? >If so, is the compiler also ported or is it just the minix-os. Why would you want to downgrade the OS of your machine? From what I have seen of both OS's the Amiga's is superior in terms of process handling, task scheduling, I/O abstraction, etc. There is a port being done for the ST (which is understandable considering...) and you may be able to leverage that work, but please explain why. If you want a u*ix flavor user interface check out Matt Dillions shell. If you want UNIX(TM) System V library calls check out the Lattice C compiler, (Aztec if you want more BSD'ish type routines). What do you hope to gain? Really, this isn't a flame, this is a question. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (10/30/87)
cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) wrote:
>Why would you want to downgrade the OS of your machine?
Some of us at ULowell started work on an Amiga port of MINIX,
then realized just what Chuck said. So we stopped the port.
The only way MINIX would be worthwhile on the Amiga would be as
one of Amiga's libraries/devices/subtasks, like the MS-DOS/Janus
software.
..Bob
PS Kim, do you still have a group at Amdahl working on MINIX?
--
Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet} mmdf@udel.UUCP (11/02/87)
This is a question I keep asking but no-one ever seems to answer, sigh... Rumour has it that work in in progress at the University of Lowell (Mass.), but it's just "hearsay". Good luck in finding this out; I'd really like to know, since I'd then start to get Amiga-MINIX talking to PC-MINIX on my Sidecar... Cheers, Bruce Becker Humber College Etobicoke, Ont.
mmdf@udel.UUCP (11/02/87)
Chuck, it's certain that the Amiga Exec is a nice bunch of O/S goodies - a useful port of MINIX to it probably runs MINIX as a task under it, with essentially translation from MINIX "syntax" to that of EXEC, the semantics being freely translatable as far as i can see... Two thing come to mind as a use - 1). Exec really is written as a single-user, single-machine system, although it probably isn't limited to that context; MINIX, on the other hand seems more directly constructed with an eye towards distributed function. In practice this means running part of in in other Amigas, or more reasonably, in communication with its counterpart on a BridgeCard or Sidecar... 2). MINIX at a higher-level interface *is* UNIX(r), so all the "terror & joy" of application interchange (read "porting") is thereby cheaply extended to the Amiga. A potential corollary of this is the notion that the wonderful Intuition interface be, in some form, backfitted into new forms of Unix/MINIX, a la the Display Managemant standardization efforts going on at ANSI, etc... In practice I suppose this means that Intuition gets "replaced" in the future as well. I'm sure there are some other reasons why a MINIX port to the Amiga is a good notion, like remote file systems that really work (sidecar software has never worked properly for example), and a software base that isn't beholden to the vagaries of internal politics at Commodore... Hope this is a useful answer to your question - Bruce Becker Humber College Etobicoke, Ont.
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (11/02/87)
In article <1910@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > The only way MINIX would be worthwhile on the Amiga would be as > one of Amiga's libraries/devices/subtasks, like the MS-DOS/Janus > software. And that would be *cool*. Just like running UNIX in a window! -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These U aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.
kim%amdahl.amdahl.com@rome.uci.edu (Kim DeVaughn) (11/03/87)
In article <1910@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > > cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) wrote: > >Why would you want to downgrade the OS of your machine? > > Some of us at ULowell started work on an Amiga port of MINIX, > then realized just what Chuck said. So we stopped the port. > > The only way MINIX would be worthwhile on the Amiga would be as > one of Amiga's libraries/devices/subtasks, like the MS-DOS/Janus > software. > > PS Kim, do you still have a group at Amdahl working on MINIX? No, and for essentially the same reason. Besides, there are so many new and interesting things to do *with* the Amiga ... I think the original appeal was largely due to the lure of having the source to the OS in hand, so we could fix all the problems that had been frustrating us with AmigaDOS (1.1), and add those sorely missing features like resource tracking, csh, etc. Well, we still don't have resource tracking, but 1.2 has proved to be alot more robust, so it's less of an issue. And the publically available utility stuff has continued to improve the (dare I say it) "user friendliness" of the machine to well below the pain threshold. And too, there are various "signals" from CBM that more improvements are coming that'll address some of the remaining problems (file system performance, etc.) So MINIX has really become a "why bother". Also, I believe alot of people expected MINIX to be much more than it is, and forgot what Andy's original intent was (and still is, I'm sure) ... to provide a *reasonably* complete system for use as an *educational tool* in the OS area. There's a BIG difference between doing this, and developing a system that's targeted for real production use (issues like performance, error recovery, etc.) Now I'd really like to see MINIX running in an AmigaDOS window, and with the sources available, I'm sure I could learn alot about OS internals. I do hope that someone who's "thing" is OS internals does this ... on either side of the "bridgecard". /kim -- UUCP: kim@amdahl.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,ihnp4,uunet,oliveb,cbosgd,ames}!amdahl!kim DDD: 408-746-8462 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25
jburnes@pnet02.cts.com (Jim Burnes) (11/04/87)
Chuck:
I have been thinking about porting MINIX over more as a learning experience
than as an attempt to improve on the Amiga Exec. I am aware that the amiga Os
is somewhat more sophiticated and also is designed to handle real-time events.
Such is life. If I port MINIX then just maybe I would understand a lot more
about operating systems and more fully appreciate the amigas OS. (OK..I'll
admit it..I just think it would be plain fun! ;-) )
-Jim Burnes
ps: Got any openings over at SUN? I'll take any job...do you need a janitor?
8-)
-Jim Burnes
"I don't beleive in ism's."
-Ferris Buehler
UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd!crash, ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax}!gryphon!pnet02!jburnes
INET: jburnes@pnet02.CTS.COMfnf@mcdsun.UUCP (Fred Fish) (11/05/87)
In article <658@louie.udel.EDU> BECKER%HUMBER.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu (Bruce Becker) writes: >but it's just "hearsay". Good luck in finding this out; I'd really like to >know, since I'd then start to get Amiga-MINIX talking to PC-MINIX on my >Sidecar... Cheers, Bruce Becker Humber College Etobicoke, Ont. This reminds me, as a soon-to-be owner of an Amiga 2000, does minix run OK on the PC side of the machine? I.E., can I have minix running on the PC side, in an AmigaDOS window? -Fred -- # Fred Fish hao!noao!mcdsun!fnf (602) 438-3614 # Motorola Computer Division, 2900 S. Diablo Way, Tempe, Az 85282 USA
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (11/05/87)
In article <2156@gryphon.CTS.COM> jburnes@pnet02.cts.com (Jim Burnes) writes: >Chuck: > I have been thinking about porting MINIX over more as a learning experience >than as an attempt to improve on the Amiga Exec. I am aware that the amiga Os >is somewhat more sophiticated and also is designed to handle real-time events. > Such is life. If I port MINIX then just maybe I would understand a lot more >about operating systems and more fully appreciate the amigas OS. (OK..I'll >admit it..I just think it would be plain fun! ;-) ) I guess I'm getting cynical in my old age :-). This is of course the one reason why anyone would actually benefit from porting MINIX to the Amiga. Yet, there are some tradeoffs and assumptions made in MINIX because they were porting too a segmented architecture. I suggest reading the MINIX book, Comer's book on XINU, the design of the UNIX operating system by Bach, and P.B. Hansen's book on O/S design. Then with all those ideas brewing in your head write your own O/S (which invariably falls into pieces like Process control, I/O device abstraction, resource allocation, etc) and test it by replacing pieces of the Amiga OS. The beauty of the Amiga system is that it lets you do this in 'user mode' and all of the pieces are accessible. In this way you can develop on your 'target' machine and still keep the benefits of an existing O/S around. Or use the pretested and working Amiga O/S to test out your new low level stuff. My personal experience is that while designing and writing a complete O/S is too large a project to tackle, writing the pieces of one are managable. And after writing enough pieces you will suddenly find you have written the whole thing. The benefit of reading all those books is that you will know some of the problems that the O/S has to deal with and that can help you understand why certain parts of the system do things in what might otherwise be inexplicable ways. Now after you have done your homework send me your resume :-) --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
daveb@laidbak.UUCP (Dave Burton) (11/06/87)
In article <32453@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <295@wmt.UUCP> keho@wmt.UUCP (Kees Houttuin) writes: >>Maybe i'm asking something well known in minix- or Amiga-world but >>anyway: does anyone know of a minix-port to the Amiga? >>If so, is the compiler also ported or is it just the minix-os. > >Why would you want to downgrade the OS of your machine? From what I >have seen of both OS's the Amiga's is superior in terms of process >handling, task scheduling, I/O abstraction, etc. ... >... What do you hope to gain? > >Really, this isn't a flame, this is a question. > >--Chuck McManis I can't speak for Chuck, but I'll be willing to bet he's NOT looking to replace his OS. Minix's best point is that it is AVAILABLE at a REASONABLE price in SOURCE form. Anyone interested in learning how a multi-tasking, multi-user operating system operates would do well to own a copy of Minix. -- --------------------"Well, it looked good when I wrote it"--------------------- Verbal: Dave Burton Net: ...!ihnp4!laidbak!daveb V-MAIL: (312) 505-9100 x325 USSnail: 1901 N. Naper Blvd. #include <disclaimer.h> Naperville, IL 60540
mmdf@udel.UUCP (11/17/87)
Minix (1.1) seems to work OK on the Sidecar attachment to the Amiga 1000, so it ought to work just fine with the A2000 bridge card. The only problem I have run into is a version of the 1.1 display bug in which the screen is trashed undr some conditions, a problem shared by several "clones"... I have seen source for a fix in the past, I'm sure it's archived on the LISTSERV at NDSUMV1 (.bitnet) For general Reference, the person to whom I am replying - i.e., Fred Fish - is the "keeper of the flame" for public-domain, et al., software for the Amiga. He offers for sale at excellent prices over 100 880K diskettes of software and graphic & sound demos... I'm sure he might have a lot of good experience to offer anyone who wants to do something similar for MINIX Bruce Becker Humber College Etobicoke, Ont.
phillip@cbmvax.UUCP (11/25/87)
in article <660@louie.udel.EDU>, BECKER%HUMBER.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu (Bruce Becker) says: > > Chuck, it's certain that the Amiga Exec is a nice bunch of O/S goodies - a > useful port of MINIX to it probably runs MINIX as a task under it, with How about taking the MINIX file system and wrapping an AmigaDOS file-handler around it. Then port fsck... And you now have a fast Amiga file system. Harddisks beg for inodes. :-) -phil ============================================================================== Phillip (Flip) Lindsay - Wake up and watch CNN at: Heather Ridge Apts. #G-115 UUCP: {ihnp4|seismo|caip}!cbmvax!phillip Mantua, NJ 08051 No warranty is implied or otherwise given in the form of suggestion or example. Any opinions found here are of my making.