[comp.os.minix] csh on minix

kernel@darkside.LBP.HARRIS.COM (Administrator) (09/21/88)

I want to put csh on my minix. Is it PD? I have the sources from Berkely,
as we distribute it as a part of our XENIX. If it's not PD (I doubt it is)
is there a reasonable clone I can start from?

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (09/22/88)

In article <6173@galbp.LBP.HARRIS.COM> kernel@darkside.LBP.HARRIS.COM (Administrator) writes:
>I want to put csh on my minix. Is it PD? I have the sources from Berkely,
>as we distribute it as a part of our XENIX.

It's derived from Bell code and is not public domain.  (Actually, even the
non-Bell parts probably have Berkeley copyright notices on them, so none
of it is PD.)  Berkeley is actively interested in de-Belling their stuff,
but I don't think they've done csh yet.

> If it's not PD (I doubt it is) is there a reasonable clone I can start from?

Why on Earth would anyone want to clone that mess? :-)
-- 
NASA is into artificial        |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
stupidity.  - Jerry Pournelle  | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

root@cca.ucsf.edu (Computer Center) (09/23/88)

In article <1988Sep21.170200.20433@utzoo.uucp>,
 henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
:: In article <6173@galbp.LBP.HARRIS.COM>
:: kernel@darkside.LBP.HARRIS.COM (Administrator) writes:
:: >I want to put csh on my minix.
:: ...
:: 
:: Why on Earth would anyone want to clone that mess? :-)

Because they're smart?

Thos Sumner       (thos@cca.ucsf.edu)   BITNET:  thos@ucsfcca
(The I.G.)        (...ucbvax!ucsfcgl!cca.ucsf!thos)

OS|2 -- an Operating System for puppets.

#include <disclaimer.std>

charles@hpcvca.HP.COM (Charles Brown) (09/24/88)

>::> I want to put csh on my minix.
>:: Why on Earth would anyone want to clone that mess? :-)
> Because they're smart?

No.  Because they've never used ksh.
	Charles Brown

koreth@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Steven Grimm) (09/25/88)

In article <5870005@hpcvca.HP.COM> charles@hpcvca.HP.COM (Charles Brown) writes:
>>::> I want to put csh on my minix.
>>:: Why on Earth would anyone want to clone that mess? :-)
>> Because they're smart?
>No.  Because they've never used ksh.

How about:

- Because they're used to csh from another system.
- Because they have lots of csh scripts that they'd rather not convert.
- Because they like the way csh does some things (history, for instance).

And, maybe the most important reason for a hacker:

- Because it's there.

---
These are my opinions, and in no way reflect those of UCSC, which are wrong.
Steven Grimm		Moderator, comp.{sources,binaries}.atari.st
koreth@ssyx.ucsc.edu	uunet!ucbvax!ucscc!ssyx!koreth

charles@hpcvca.HP.COM (Charles Brown) (09/26/88)

>>>::> I want to put csh on my minix.
>>>:: Why on Earth would anyone want to clone that mess? :-)
>>> Because they're smart?
>>No.  Because they've never used ksh.
>- Because they're used to csh from another system.

We had several hold-outs here for almost a year.  When they finally
converted, inevitably they said "Why did I wait so long?  What a waste!"

>- Because they have lots of csh scripts that they'd rather not convert.

That consists of inserting
	#!/bin/csh
as the first line.  No problem.

>- Because they like the way csh does some things (history, for instance).

This tells me you have never used ksh.  The history in ksh is clearly
superior to csh.
1. Who wants to use a bizzare sequence of characters to specify using
portions of the previous line when you can simply edit that line in
place using your favorite editor's commands?
2. Csh's history is remembered as long as that shell history lasts.
Ksh's history is remembered as long as you don't remove the history
file.

>- Because it's there.
>	Steven Grimm		Moderator, comp.{sources,binaries}.atari.st

Is it?  Where?  If we do not have csh sources, then it makes far more
sense to take sh (which clearly DOES exit) and modify it to make it as
powerful as ksh.  
	Charles Brown
Not representing my employer.

root@darkside.LBP.HARRIS.COM (Administrator) (09/27/88)

In article <4929@saturn.ucsc.edu:> koreth@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Steven Grimm) writes:
:>In article <5870005@hpcvca.HP.COM> charles@hpcvca.HP.COM (Charles Brown) writes:
:>>>::> I want to put csh on my minix.
:>>>:: Why on Earth would anyone want to clone that mess? :-)
:>>> Because they're smart?
:>>No.  Because they've never used ksh.
:>
:>How about:
:>
:>- Because they're used to csh from another system.
:>- Because they have lots of csh scripts that they'd rather not convert.
:>- Because they like the way csh does some things (history, for instance).
:>
:>And, maybe the most important reason for a hacker:
:>
:>- Because it's there.
:>

I guess if I do do a port, nobody'll ever hear about it... :-)  :-)  :-)
I have seen ksh before... <thumbs slowly pointing down>

oh BTW anybody port any good games to minix yet? a nice early version of
hack (when they used to still fit into 64K data, text) would be nice...


Bing H Bang				uucp:	...gatech!galbp!bing
"You are born. You live. You go		prodigy:	jxkh70a
on some diets. You die." --Opus

wtoomey@gara.une.oz (Warren Toomey) (09/28/88)

In several articles to date:
> >>>::> I want to put csh on my minix.
> >>>:: Why on Earth would anyone want to clone that mess? :-)
> >>> Because they're smart?
> >>No.  Because they've never used ksh.
> >- Because they're used to csh from another system.

Ok, let's solve this debate by saying, if you want <particular shell> on
Minix, then you should write it. If you look back a few weeks, you'll
see that I posted an article asking for some system calls which haven't
been implemented on Minix yet, so I could do a port of my friend's tcsh
clone. Haven't noticed any replies, either!

Re: this shell is better than that, if you write <particular shell> and
post it to this newsgroup, we'll be able to try it ourselves, and see
if it is better.

Right, now let's get back to Minix..

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Warren Toomey                                                             |
|Dept. of Computing Science  ACSNET: wtoomey@gara.une.oz                   |
|University of New England   UUCP: ...!uunet!munnari!gara.une.oz!wtoomey   |
|Armidale Australia 2351     ARPA: wtoomey%gara.une.oz@uunet.uu.net        |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|      "Life isn't as trivial as it seems, it only appears to be."         |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

rroot@edm.UUCP (Stephen Samuel) (10/01/88)

From article <5870006@hpcvca.HP.COM>, by charles@hpcvca.HP.COM (Charles Brown):
>>>>::> I want to put csh on my minix.
>>>>:: Why on Earth would anyone want to clone that mess? :-)
> 
>>- Because they like the way csh does some things (history, for instance).
> 
> This tells me you have never used ksh.  The history in ksh is clearly
> superior to csh.
Only in some ways.  It is sometimes really nice to make arbitrary changes
to history lines but, in most cases I tend to want my history lines more
intact or with few changes.  Csh works fine for that --
It's a lot easier to do things like:
find here -name foo -size -5 -print
 
 (Hmm,  I wanna edit that )
vi ` !! `
  as opposed to KSH:
<esc>kivi `<esc>A`

which would do the same thing.
 It's even worse with KSH when you're doing things over a low-speed (1200bd)
modem.. (KSH ignores the concept of CURSES)
>>- Because they have lots of csh scripts that they'd rather not convert.

> That consists of inserting
> 	#!/bin/csh
> as the first line.  No problem.

unh, that doesn't work if csh hasn't been ported over (that's the reason
for this discussion in the first place).

There is one thing I LIKE about not using CSH: you can 'Mail edm!obed!steve' 
instead of 'edm\!obed\!steve' (I refuse to change the history char
to something reasonable).

One last GOOD thing about csh is the iterative brackets:
  ls -l /usr/man/{a,u}_man/*/{a*,cat.?}

If you're gonna re-invent the shell, at least put THAT in.
-- 
-------------
Stephen Samuel 	  (userzxcv@ualtamts.bitnet   or  alberta!edm!steve)
(Only in Canada, you say??.... Pity!)