sampson@killer.UUCP (Steve Sampson) (05/08/88)
Here's a dumb question(s): 1. Will the 68k version be available on MSDOS disks? 2. How about it? 3. I'm interested in using it for another machine and will entertain any offers of getting it in that form. Thanks a bunch, Steve.
cjeffery@arizona.edu (Clinton Jeffery) (05/08/88)
From article <4010@killer.UUCP>, by sampson@killer.UUCP (Steve Sampson): > 1. Will the 68k version (minix...) be available on MSDOS disks? I too would be very interested in seeing such a distribution. For that matter, are the PC versions available in MSDOS format, or can one only get them in (minix,xinu) format? Also: Would some soul(s) *EMAIL* me a brief rundown on comparative features of Minix and Xinu? How do their models differ? Their interprocess communication? Performance on normal applications? Completeness of the standard unix tool sets? Why are both distributions $80, and both books over $40? These prices have prevented me from trying either minix or xinu, and if I *do* try one I have to be darned sure to get the better one... -- | Clint Jeffery, University of Arizona Department of Computer Science | cjeffery@arizona.edu -or- {ihnp4 noao}!arizona!cjeffery --
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (05/23/88)
In article ... comer@PURDUE.EDU.UUCP (presumably Douglas Comer) writes: > >> Would some soul(s) *EMAIL* me a brief rundown on comparative features of > >> Minix and Xinu? How do their models differ? Their interprocess > >> communication? Performance on normal applications? Completeness of > >> the standard unix tool sets? > Briefly, Minix is a minature version 7 (circa 1978) UNIX system; Xinu is an > entirely new, hierarchically structures operating system with only small > resemblence to UNIX internally. Minix is a message-passing operating system that has little resemblance to UNIX internally. The external interface is modelled on Version 7 UNIX. The internal model is similar to the ADA "Rendezvous". I personally don't care for this, as it doesn't give you the performance of raw coroutines and doesn't give you the security of a queued-message system, but saying it's similar to UNIX is just not true. > They don't even attempt to do the same things. They seem to have similar design goals to me. They're both toy operating systems for teaching purposes. > Xinu tries to illustrate new operating system > concepts including networking protocols. Minix ... tries to provide a small operating system to teach operating system concepts. > Minix runs on PCs; > Xinu runs on PCs, Vaxen, PDP11s, SUNs, National 32000s, etc. Go to your > library and look at the two texts. Good idea. I know you're fond of your baby, and I think it's a really neat system too. I just think that you're being a little quick to dismiss Minix as just a UNIX clone. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- "Have you hugged your U wolf today?" ...!bellcore!tness1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These may be the official opinions of Hackercorp.
GVAEB@isuvax.bitnet (tony bible, iowa state university) (10/31/88)
when andrew tanenbaum formally announced atari minix he stated that he thought it would not be too difficlut to port it to a mactintosh or other 68000 based machines. my questions are: since i do not have access to an atari how do i get a macinstosh readable disk? and, the pink card in the back of "THE BOOK" offers minix sources on 9-trk mag tape; does this apply to the atari version also? or does anyone have a phone number for someone in Prentice-Hall i can call to find out? thanks. tony bible
ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) (11/01/88)
In article <5089@louie.udel.EDU> GVAEB@isuvax.bitnet (tony bible, iowa state university) writes: >when andrew tanenbaum formally announced atari minix he stated that he thought >how do iget a macinstosh readable disk? and, >the pink card in the back of "THE BOOK" >offers minix sources on 9-trk mag tape; does this apply to the atari version >also? or does anyone have a phone number for someone in Prentice-Hall i can >call to find out? thanks. I am not much of a Macintosh expert, but the Atari disks are standard 720K 3.5 inch disks. If you take the program readfs, compile it on the macintosh with any C compiler, you should be able to insert an Atari diskette and read the MINIX file system from it, since readfs can handle the 3.5 inch disks (actually, it doesn't know or care; it just sees a linear list of blocks). I would think this approach should be reasonable. An alternative approach is to hook up a PC and a Macintosh using kermit. There is no tape version for the Atari. Not many Ataris have 9 track tape. (Not that many PCs do either ...) Don't call P-H for technical support. They won't be able to help. Use the newsgroup for questions, or if they are such that I am the only one who is likely to know the answer, send me email (or Johan, as the case may be). Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl)
jcvw@tjalk.cs.vu.nl (Winkel van J C) (11/02/88)
The Apple Macintosh does not use the 'standard' disk recording techniques (MFM or double density). The technique used is called 'Group Coded Recording'. Technically it is possible for the Mac to read MFM discs because in the Mac the 68000 does almost all disc reads/writes by itself and a special Apple-made chip called the IWM (Incredible Woz Machine, after Steve Wozniac, its creator). This scheme also allows to use different rotational speeds for different cylinders of the disk, thus gaining storage capacity. Therefor a 'standard' disk device driver cannot read a atari disk. A Mac version of readfs would have to include a special device driver to read MFM disks, not an easy task... Jan Christiaan van Winkel
rmtodd@uokmax.UUCP (Richard Michael Todd) (11/03/88)
In article <1600@ast.cs.vu.nl> ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes: >I am not much of a Macintosh expert, but the Atari disks are standard 720K ^^^^^^^^ "Standards are wonderful, there are so many to choose from." (a famous quote, usually attributed to Andy Tanenbaum(!)). >3.5 inch disks. If you take the program readfs, compile it on the macintosh >with any C compiler, you should be able to insert an Atari diskette and >read the MINIX file system from it, since readfs can handle the 3.5 inch >disks (actually, it doesn't know or care; it just sees a linear list of >blocks). I would think this approach should be reasonable. It would except that Macintoshes don't use the same disk recording scheme as MS-DOS machines and Ataris. MS-DOS and Atari systems use MFM, whereas Macs use GCR (I think--anyway *not* MFM). I don't think sticking an Atari disk into a Mac will produce anything except garbage. Reportedly the newest Mac floppy drives (on the MAc IIx) do have the ability to read DOS-formatted diskettes (presumably they threw in an MFM controller chip), so you could do it on one of those machines, but not on most Macs. >An alternative approach is to hook up a PC and a Macintosh using kermit. In this case I think it's the only approach. -- Richard Todd Fido:1:147/1 USSnail:820 Annie Court,Norman OK 73069 Try one of these: rmtodd@chinet.uucp, rmtodd@killer.dallas.tx.us, rmtodd@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu or ...!sun!texsun!uokmax!rmtodd. "MSDOS is a Neanderthal operating system" - Henry Spencer
dlm@druhi.ATT.COM (Dan Moore) (11/04/88)
in article <1600@ast.cs.vu.nl>, ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) says: > I am not much of a Macintosh expert, but the Atari disks are standard 720K > 3.5 inch disks. If you take the program readfs, compile it on the macintosh > with any C compiler, you should be able to insert an Atari diskette and > read the MINIX file system from it, since readfs can handle the 3.5 inch > disks (actually, it doesn't know or care; it just sees a linear list of > blocks). I would think this approach should be reasonable. The Macintosh uses a non-standard disk format (GCR instead of MFM) and has variable speed drives. This prevents a standard Mac from reading disks written by any other computer and other computers can't read Macintosh disks without special hardware. Apple has just released a new drive that can read standard 3.5 inch disks (IBM, ST, etc), it is fairly expensive and I'm not sure if it works with all Macintosh models. Central Point sells a card for the IBM PC that allows it to use Macintosh disks, it's about $150. Data Pacific sells an interface box for the ST that allows the ST to read Mac disks, it's about $270. > An alternative approach is to hook up a PC and a Macintosh using kermit. This is probably the best option given the cost of the hardware required for disk compatibility. > Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl) Dan Moore AT&T Bell Labs Denver dlm@druhi.ATT.COM
greyham@ausonics.OZ (Greyham Stoney) (11/04/88)
in article <1600@ast.cs.vu.nl>, ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) says: > I am not much of a Macintosh expert, but the Atari disks are standard 720K > 3.5 inch disks. If you take the program readfs, compile it on the macintosh > with any C compiler, you should be able to insert an Atari diskette and > read the MINIX file system from it, since readfs can handle the 3.5 inch > disks (actually, it doesn't know or care; it just sees a linear list of > blocks). I would think this approach should be reasonable. As I understand it, The Mac uses a variable speed drive to pack as much on a 3 1/2" disk as everyone else can pack on using normal drives. Apparently this is a major problem in getting it to read/write anything but Mac disks. Anyone know more about this? Is there a program to read/write other format disks (say, IBM pc 720k?); if it were possible, someone would have done it by now. Greyham -- # Greyham Stoney: (disclaimer not necessary: I'm obviously irresponsible) # greyham@ausonics.oz - Ausonics Pty Ltd, Lane Cove. /* Official Sponsor */ # greyham@utscsd.oz - Uni of Technology, Sydney.
allbery@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon S. Allbery) (11/10/88)
As quoted from <1600@ast.cs.vu.nl> by ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum): +--------------- | I am not much of a Macintosh expert, but the Atari disks are standard 720K | 3.5 inch disks. If you take the program readfs, compile it on the macintosh | with any C compiler, you should be able to insert an Atari diskette and | read the MINIX file system from it, since readfs can handle the 3.5 inch | disks (actually, it doesn't know or care; it just sees a linear list of | blocks). I would think this approach should be reasonable. +--------------- Alas, not true unless one is lucky enough to have a IIx. The Macintosh floppy controller only reads and writes the so-called "Woz format" with variable motor speeds in 5 bands of tracks. The IIx has a hybrid controller which can read and write standard fixed-speed-motor disks. (The effect of the speed change is that the density of a standard floppy gets higher the closer the heads get to the motor spindle; this is not true (or at least not true enough) of Mac disks.) ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery, comp.sources.misc moderator and one admin of ncoast PA UN*X uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery <PREFERRED!> ncoast!allbery@hal.cwru.edu allberyb@skybridge.sdi.cwru.edu <ALSO> allbery@uunet.uu.net comp.sources.misc is moving off ncoast -- please do NOT send submissions direct Send comp.sources.misc submissions to comp-sources-misc@<backbone>.
hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) (11/27/88)
In article <65@ausonics.OZ> greyham@ausonics.OZ (Greyham Stoney) writes: >As I understand it, The Mac uses a variable speed drive to pack as much on >a 3 1/2" disk as everyone else can pack on using normal drives. Apparently >this is a major problem in getting it to read/write anything but Mac disks. >Anyone know more about this? Is there a program to read/write other format >disks (say, IBM pc 720k?); if it were possible, someone would have done it by >now. On older style Macs, everything is software controlled. According to the docs in _Inside_The_Macintosh_, the MacPlus drive controls its own speed, independent of the Mac generated signal sent over the interface. As such, unless someone can find docs for how to program the MacPlus floppy controller, it'll be tough going. (That's the double sided floppy. I suppose no one is really interested in using single sided floppies any more...?) (The MacPlus hardware is described in Inside Macintosh, volume 4. The old style Mac hardware is decribed in volume 3.) Too bad none of these volumes really describe the hardware in enough detail. However, it mentions that the disks are written in much the same way as the Apple II did, which implies a non-standard signal encoding scheme... -- / /_ , ,_. Howard Chu / /(_/(__ University of Michigan / Computing Center College of LS&A ' Unix Project Information Systems